One for the Lycra-ists

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Anthony Todd — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:01:30 GMT

Geez, wouldn't it be fun if nobody had thought of this......

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:32:44 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Unless, when tested, his urine, for some reason, was much more concentrated ie less volume to hold same amount of test substance??

Surely they must factor in SG??

10mg/ml at SG1.040 should equal 5mg/ml at SG 1.020?? Twice the urinary volume??

[/quote]

You'd think that the ratio to something like creatinine would be more helpful to allow for different specific gravities of samples, like we do to quantify protein or cortisol levels in urine.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"][physics and chem not my best feature][/quote]

Ditto

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Anthony Todd — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:18:53 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]the other 19 tests were below acceptable levels (on the Giro) come in so high?[/quote]

Unless, when tested, his urine, for some reason, was much more concentrated ie less volume to hold same amount of test substance??

Surely they must factor in SG??

10mg/ml at SG1.040 should equal 5mg/ml at SG 1.020?? Twice the urinary volume??

[physics and chem not my best feature]

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:39:51 GMT

Which leads to the conclusion that something very bizarre is going on.

If the scientific evidence (and I can't believe Sky can't google search) points to it having little effect why has this amount been detected on that particular day when the other 19 tests were below acceptable levels (on the Giro) come in so high?

More to the point why an earth were they playing with 'fire' when they know how it will be seen if something crops up.

It can't be for performance purposes can it? or am I being naive?

Neil

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Julian Earl — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:33:18 GMT

Here is one link on the EntrezPubMed site :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25856682

No significant effects were seen.

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:30:11 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Should be easy to find out with all the measuring instruments available these days.

Unless they already know?

[/quote]There is a limit of 1000 ng/ml in urine allowable. Taken by inhaler it should be impossible to exceed this so the presumption is that it has been taken by another route with the intention of enhancing performance. The data the UCI use to come to this conclusion suggests that it is performance enhancing when taken in larger amounts albeit there are plenty of experts who will say it is not.

As for measuring the effect, given that a recent piece of research has concluded that EPO is not performance enhancing in trained athletes when it can give a 10% increase in HCT, then one has to question how objective any performance test can be in real world conditions.

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Anthony Todd — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 11:21:02 GMT

Should be easy to find out with all the measuring instruments available these days.

Unless they already know?

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 10:44:56 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]On SPTY last night Froome said that he had not exceeded his prescribed dose.[/quote]

I thought to 'ambush' him with questions about this last night was dreadful. His achievements have been awesome this year and they should have focussed on that rather than trying to make him squirm. All the others were treated with politeness.

The BMJ have an article

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675

CONCLUSIONS Inhaled salbutamol, even in a high dose, did not have a significant effect on endurance performance in non-asthmatic athletes, although the bronchodilating effect of the drug at the beginning of exercise may have improved respiratory adaptation. Our results do not preclude an ergogenic effect of β2 agonists given by other routes or for a longer period.

Neil

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Julian Earl — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:30:01 GMT

A few years ago there was a paper from the USA I think that showed that inhalers did not enhance physical performance if one does not suffer from asthma. In fact they might even reduce ability due to secondary effects on the heart. Maybe at extreme effort one's bronchi are already maximally dilated?

On SPTY last night Froome said that he had not exceeded his prescribed dose.

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:45:53 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Surely if Froome, or others, drank loads of water the drug concentration in the urine would drop, and they'd be in the clear, or am I being a dope again??[/quote]The theory is that they will nearly always be dehydrated, it is almost impossible to drink enough to combat this but that shouldn't give a reading for Salbutomol 100% over the permitted level and given it was a cold rainy day and he didn't exceed the limit on any other day, even the very hot days, it sounds like a feeble excuse.

However what bothers me is that although I don't believe Sky are systematically doping they, like a lot of sportsmen - not just Sky, not just cyclists) are taking advantage of the legitimate use of potentially performance enhancing substances and TUEs. It always seemed oddly suspicious that there is a disproportionate number of asthmatics in elite sport and while extreme exercise can induce asthma attacks in genuine sufferers it seems as though the majority are affected which is way beyond the morbidity in a normal population when you'd think that if they were that asthmatic it would have prevented them from progressing to that level in the first place so the proportion should actually be lower.

My feeling is that this just another example of Team Sky trying to push the limits without breaking the rules and occasionally going too far. This with the Murdochs selling up to Disney may just ring the death knell for the team

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:23:17 GMT

Seeing we're on cycling agaaaaainnnnn [groan] [joke]

How come drug concentration in urine seems independent of SG?

Surely if Froome, or others, drank loads of water the drug concentration in the urine would drop, and they'd be in the clear, or am I being a dope again??

RE: One for the Lycra-ists

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:36:00 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]One sketch finds a husband taking up Lycra and cycling. His wife comes upon him in the bathroom shaving foam on his legs...."Is that my razor?" she asks.[/quote]Not sure what you're getting at here Jon - your surprise cyclists shave their legs or surprise his wife is taking umbrage at him using her equipment she uses on her more ahem...intimate parts? Sharing equipment is a capital offence, especially with toothbrushes, in our household.

For the record, one of the advantages of male pattern baldness is that my legs are virtually bald so I just finish the job with my own electric razor.

Or am I missing the boat altogether?