Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:22:10 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]is that a net gain?[/quote]

Yes for the white middle or upper class passing the law. If they banned it then they fixed it. Because this obviously worked so well already in the past. See prohibition, war on drogs, antiprostitution laws.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

J G Wray — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:25:29 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Legal or illegal importation of pups with dubious health history from East Europe. [/quote]

is that a net gain?

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:32:48 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Where will this trade go?[/quote]

Legal or illegal importation of pups with dubious health history from East Europe.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

J G Wray — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 11:22:49 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Theresa May has jumped on the fluffy-puppy-vote-winner-bandwagon, I see:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/archive/2017/12/22/government-to-crack-down-on-puppy-farming.aspx

Very good news, though!

[/quote]

Where will this trade go?

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:58:41 GMT

Theresa May has jumped on the fluffy-puppy-vote-winner-bandwagon, I see:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/archive/2017/12/22/government-to-crack-down-on-puppy-farming.aspx

Very good news, though!

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Iain Richards — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 22:06:14 GMT

It was more probable that the government voted down the amendment because it was suggested by the opposition. They realised it might have been viewed as being part of the nasty party (repealing fox hunting ban, introducing badger culling) and remembered there were votes in it. So they talked down Article 13 and talked up their own version.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 10:06:44 GMT

[quote user="Andreas Ege"]I haven't got any influence on either, and if Brexit gets too bad for EU immigrants I have enough options not to worry about it.[/quote]I've also given up being bothered, unless there is a total meltdown in global finance and the property market plummets, I'm set for the rest of my life. EU migrants will soon realise the great adventure is over and they are better off back home and those who voted Brexit deserve what comes to them. I just feel sorry for the remainers who may not have such a buffer or options.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Andreas Ege — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 02:30:48 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]If you are negotiating with an aggressor you tend to keep your cards close to your chest. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the EU leaders and negotiators are antagonistic and aggressive.[/quote]

Yeah, and the British government has been only agreeable and accommodating. After all, all they want is the cherries but not the cake. Who could disagree with that and not wanting to accomodate?
I keep wondering who's going to get all the blame once it can't be put on the EU anymore?

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Presumably because they are worried that if they are seen to be nice then other disgruntled countries may chose to leave their happy crowd.[/quote]

Can't blame them for that, can you? I didn't have the impression the English in average where too thrilled by the idea of Scottish independence, and the difference to Brexit doesn't seem that big to me. I admit, good chance of being wrong, as I'm not following either development too closely, as I haven't got any influence on either, and if Brexit gets too bad for EU immigrants I have enough options not to worry about it.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Bob Russell — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:21:46 GMT

If you are negotiating with an aggressor you tend to keep your cards close to your chest. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the EU leaders and negotiators are antagonistic and aggressive. Presumably because they are worried that if they are seen to be nice then other disgruntled countries may chose to leave their happy crowd.

The animal welfare aspect is preaching to the converted so extremely easy legislation. The UK has been a large player in animal welfare within the EU. Bullfighting and fois gras plus tethered sows attitudes should have an easier time now.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Edward Jones — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:04:04 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I mean, we wait for months and months for a whole raft of crucially important decisions affecting millions of people’s lives. Then [...] two weeks later and ta dah ... a draft new animal welfare bill[/quote]

The first is hard, the second is easy.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 07:36:35 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]So why not make the point that it was twaddle, by drafting a new animal welfare bill? Democracy in action, surely. People indicate that they want something, government has a think and responds.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad thing they drafted a new bill. I was just having a chuckle to myself at the sorts of 'Yes Minister' discussions that must have gone on behind the scenes to precipitate the new bill.

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]PS "Twitterati" is a plural. [/quote]

oops.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 01:13:31 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Then MPs vote against passing Article 13 into law, the twitterati goes mad, claiming those uncaring MPs don’t think animals are sentient (complete twaddle)[/quote]

It was indeed complete twaddle (they voted down a lousy amendment, that's all) but it fooled a lot of people including our own dear BVA president. Yes, such twaddle does damage a government. So why not make the point that it was twaddle, by drafting a new animal welfare bill? Democracy in action, surely. People indicate that they want something, government has a think and responds.

PS "Twitterati" is a plural.

RE: Brexit, animal sentience and cynicism

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:39:17 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

I may be being cynical, but it conjures up an episode of The Thick Of It or Yes Minister

[/quote]

Not cynical, just the way it is right now.

Government cabinet tries to show how well deregulation from EU is going to play .. to then U-turn into accept that those horrible things that we are all obliged to do are there for a reason.

This is just another farce, and we won't stop hearing them until way after March'19.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

My god, Smithers, we’ll be crucified over this. I know ... quick, get a new bill out.

[/quote]

It's now called 'alignment' apparently.