Any raptor fans here?

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:05:46 GMT

Touche Evelyn, a well balanced response, take 5 stars from me! Only I must protest that I am skilled in a large number of sports, other than just propelling a two-wheeled vehicle with pedals rather fast, many of which require considerable hand eye coordination. I do also confess to owning a powerful air pistol which I do from time to time enjoy aiming at various inanimate targets but feel very childish when I do so.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:39:59 GMT

I have never shot anything living in my life (nor, before you sneer, have I tried to and missed ), except of course horses, cattle and sheep; but being intensely interested in shooting holes in bits of paper or indeed clay discs (all of which takes considerably more skill than one highly skilled only in propelling a two-wheeled vehicle with pedals might appreciate) I mingle very much with all sorts of shooters, not to mention military people, and of course in my professional life I have much interaction with gamekeepers and other shooting people. All have a better appreciation of the biology of raptors and wildlife in general than the average dork who gets his or her information from watching celebrity blokes and bints on the telly , are well aware that red kites are carrion feeders and scavengers and are very well aware that it is horribly illegal to harm or interfere with red kites.

I'm sure there are a few rotten gamekeepers and amateur gamekeepers who may shoot, poison or trap red kites or even hen harriers, possibly because they are poor at their job anyway. But it's not done by the "shooting community", or even the "shooting fraternity". (Ever noticed that if you want to be derogatory about a group you don't understand you refer to them as "the so-and-so fraternity"?)

Even the RSPB, not known as a bastion of unbiased ecological science, admit that the main threat to the red kite is from poisoning by bait laced with agricultural chemicals laid out to kill foxes and crows. Certain farmers do that (again possibly because they are not very good farmers).

Barely relevant anecdote from a previous employment, when paraquat was the fashionable stuff to misuse: a farmer laced a chicken with paraquat and left it out for foxes, but succeeded only in killing, rather horribly, the much-loved bumbling family Labrador. I discussed reporting the matter to MAFF, as it was, (reporting of all malicious poisoning by agricultural chemicals was encouraged at that time); the senior partner (who I suspect was really thinking of how big a client this farmer was) dissuaded me, reckoning that the farmer was likely to already be suffering much more at the hands of his wife and three daughters than he ever could from the law.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:50:09 GMT

As a student I spent a month at an animal charity in Jaipur, helping with the neutering programme and some ambulatory stuff. There are loads of kites in the city, and one got brought to the charity with it's feet cut off, just stumps left. Horrible.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:49:52 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Can we please stop with the unfounded persecution of the shooting community? I see crap like this on Facebook from the uninformed, but I had higher hopes from you guys.[/quote]I find this somewhat hypocritical coming from someone who thinks cyclists are 'twats'!

I have to say that I have much same opinion of grown men playing like little boys with a pop-gun, shooting flying discs or killing birds. Hard to fathom really, like you think cyclists are lycra louts I think the shooting community are Barbour louts. We might run over the odd pedestrian who steps in the road but we're not killing for pleasure!

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Julie Innes — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:54:29 GMT

Re Martin's kitten: I watched in bemusement and horror once as a seagull picked up my small white (adult!) cat from the flat roof below my flat and travelled a good few feet before dropping her (thankfully on the roof!)

I did some work with hawks and buzzards in one of my first jobs. they were brought in by the SSPCA, usually having been caught up in overhead wires.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Iain Richards — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:44:06 GMT

It is unfortunate that a few idiots in the shooting industry have killed varied birds, it's a very short sighted approach. There is a good argument that the retention of copses, small woods, cover crops etc has benefitted other wildlife as well as the game birds. There's also the slightly muddled evidence showing increased wader numbers with increased predator control on a grouse moor.

It's another of the problems of conservation, birds like raptors are a) large b) spectacular c) have a history of persecution so they are "iconic" and as such attract more attention than the humble sparrow. The upside is that cash roles in for protection more than you've get for "save the moors".

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Julian Earl — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:34:03 GMT

Sorry Michael but I agree with Dinu. There are well-documented cases of birds of prey being shot or poisoned where they were perceived as a threat to the shooting. I confess to being influenced as well by my work on a pig farm at a large estate as a student; so years ago, where the farm-manager and gamekeeper openly talked about killing all predators, be they stoats/weasels/magpies/birds of prey anything he saw as a threat to the pheasants. I was not impressed. Absolutely true, I'm afraid. Maybe the situation is different nowadays?

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:42:50 GMT

No, it is not crap. There are game keepers prosecuted for trapping and I doubt they were the only ones. I never said all of them.

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]The shooting community has done far more for conservation and management than any other organisation ever has, this includes the re-introduction and protection of raptors.[/quote]

Now that is crap. So how exactly did these birds almost disappear from the UK? Especially the peregrine falcon which is difficult to trap (does not attack on the ground too often) or poison.

In Romania the traps were exclusively used by shooters and pigeon fanciers. I don't see why UK would be any different.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-13749356

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/feb/09/wildlife.conservation

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:57:47 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]I think the biggest threat are the uninformed game keepers trapping them in the winter when food is scarce. [/quote]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]My main worry is persecution by the large shooting community round here.[/quote]

Can we please stop with the unfounded persecution of the shooting community? I see crap like this on Facebook from the uninformed, but I had higher hopes from you guys.

The shooting community has done far more for conservation and management than any other organisation ever has, this includes the re-introduction and protection of raptors.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Julian Earl — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:50:18 GMT

Beautiful creatures:

swooping towards our house.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:56:02 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Red kites mainly feed on carrion. There have been reports of buzzards dive bombing people when nesting.

[/quote]But there are also reports of them taking lambs. I suspect my attacker was a buzzard.

Still if my kitten was dinner for some Red Kite chicks then I rest more easily than thinking he lay dying injured or trapped somewhere for days somewhere I couldn't find him.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Julian Earl — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:55:55 GMT

Sorry Martin, I've just liked that post. Not because you were attacked, but an interesting tale! I do not know for sure but I would doubt a Kite would do that. Surely they are fairly passive compared to some raptors like Sparrowhawks, and even compared to Buzzards as well? I understand that Goshawks are in Thetford forest in Norfolk, but are quite elusive.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:32:19 GMT

Red kites mainly feed on carrion. There have been reports of buzzards dive bombing people when nesting.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:20:22 GMT

We suspect that a Red Kite took one of our kittens. He went out in the middle of the afternoon never to be seen again despite having a collar and chip and extensive local searches. A few weeks later my wife heard a cacophany of bird alarm calls and looked out to see replacement kitten crouching on the lawn with the Kite circling closely overhead! They were both about 5 months old and 3 kg at the time so an unlikely prey for a Kite but there are rumours of them taking bigger prey than that.

Also a couple of years ago a raptor attacked my helmet when I was cycling in the country, I just felt a clout on my head and looked up to see a brown feathery thing disappearing back into the trees so couldn't identify it. Question did it attack my helmet because of the colours or just my head because I was too close too it's nest. If the latter, I'm glad I had a helmet otherwise I might have had a few talon marks on my scalp!

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:53:46 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Am I alone in my excitement and do others see them very frequently?[/quote]

When I moved in the UK I was unpleasantly surprised by the rarity of these birds. In Romania there is a large population in spite of the continous trapping and killing by hunters, game keepers and racing pigeons fanciers.

With another friend we set up a rescue organisation and we managed to rehabilitate quite a few birds, mainly kestrels, buzzards, tawny owls. We had a few injured sparrowhawks and goshawks as well but they were rare.

I would love to fly one but it will be impossible until I retire. Nest searching and monitoring in the spring were fantastic times :)

[quote user="Julian Earl"]My main worry is persecution by the large shooting community round here.[/quote]

I think the biggest threat are the uninformed game keepers trapping them in the winter when food is scarce.

This is my first rescued kestrel, some children brought her after destroying the nest.

And this is a buzzard with the exact same story, this one was trained for educational purposes, we used to go to biology classes in the rural areas and educate children about raptors and why they should stop trapping them.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:47:12 GMT

I love raptors. Majestic, highly evolved hunters ( in contrast to most of the inbred pets we see!)

One of the success stories in my lifetime has been the increase in raptor numbers. Kites and buzzards are common round my way. I saw a sparrowhawk take a starling right outside my house! I would love to see their larger relative the goshawk but they are elusive.

On the Isle of Mull I was lucky enough to see a sea eagle at close quarters. We were with some birders looking at an eagle nest in the distance through binoculars when there was a huge commotion behind and one had taken a gull about 20 yards behind on the edge of the loch!

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 23:59:21 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]We used to see a lot of sparrowhawks here at home but they seem to have declined.[/quote] There are quite a few of them in our local forest park - yep they are such ambush hunters... I have never seen one coming, only a flash of feathers as they vanish! You can hear the young ones quite often though, they are very vocal with each other. There are jays in the forest too and Tom has seen a pine marten on the way in once. I have perfected my admiring noises to make when invited to view photos of half a footprint or some semi- rare species of poo that he has found on a rock.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 23:50:07 GMT

On my first weekend off in my first job I went to see the Elan Valley. I was bowling along the road by the reservoir when a kite swooped across in front of the car. Fifty yards further on before I had got over the fact that I had nearly squashed a rare bird of prey, the same thing happened except even closer - it was only a few feet from the windscreen. That's the only time I've seen them apart from visiting my friend in Thame, Oxfordshire - I was able to lie in bed looking out of the window and see a dozen of them in the sky without turning my head. I watched them for ages but she said that although she was excited at first she hardly even looks up any more, they are so common.

I suppose some of the shooting fraternity might be agin them but not all....my husband is a proud Welshman and ex gamekeeper and he loves them. Along with everything else it seems...he has set up barn owl boxes on my parents farm (sadly unused so far), a trail camera on the estate where he works in the hopes of seeing pine martens for which he is making pine marten boxes (unfortunately only sheep starring on video so far) and feeds a couple of hen pheasants on the estate (which nobody will be allowed to shoot- they do say the safest pheasant is the one which lives in the gamekeeper's garden!). Grey squirrels, magpies and hoodie crows don't get such tender care but if he does away with them they get left near the closest badger sett as a present.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Julian Earl — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:20:52 GMT

velyn, I am just suspicious that the shooting fraternity might accuse them of taking their precious pheasants! IOr maybe they are more enlightened nowadays?

Reply to Joyce. I was in Mull for Sheep Veterinary Society last yearand though around we did not see an eagle. The farmers there are adamant that those will take lamb. I was sceptical but a good and trusted vet friend there had his cat was attacked and had the talon-wounds to prove it.

We had a sea Eagle here in Lincolnshire about a year ago and bird watchers materialised from everywhere!However if you really want to see them, go to Stockholm! Sitting in the sunshine on my sister-in-law's patio in summer heat we watched several circling about 2,000 feet above and they are often seen down the east coast of Sweden. A magnificent sight and unmistakeable due to the size and their white tail.

We used to see a lot of sparrowhawks here at home but they seem to have declined. A fabulous exciting bird to watch as they jink and dodge around by hedges and bushes searching for victims.

At home we threw a road-kill pheasant onto our garage roof and it disappeared within the day. We don't think that our cat ate it!

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 18:20:54 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]I have been a fan of birds of prey since I was a teenager[/quote]

Me too.

[quote user="Julian Earl"]My main worry is persecution by the large shooting community round here. [/quote]

Why?

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 18:11:04 GMT

Yes we also have local kites, one often flies over the surgery. On a really good dog walking day i have seen a kite, 3 buzzards, a sparrowhawk and a kestrel all in an hour! I love all raptors.

We were here lucky enough to see a white tailed sea eagle on Skye last year, he was magnificent.

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Bob Russell — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:53:42 GMT

We have had kites around us here for a good few years. Initially we were advised to keep quiet about them as they might have been a target for gamekeepers or birdwatchers. Now not an infrequent sight. Stacks of buzzards!

RE: Any raptor fans here?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:46:53 GMT

It is great isn't it?

My parents-in-law live in Adel, Leeds, and their neighbours feed the kites every day. I love watching them swooping down for the meat..beautiful creatures.