Starting up

RE: Starting up

An On MRCVS — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 06:35:07 GMT

Brilliant, thank you for the thoughts. Is reassuring to know it's not a major issue. Lots to think about with this whole thing isn't there?!

RE: Starting up

Julie Innes — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:33:19 GMT

We don't have any grass directly outside, but there are a couple of areas nearby where staff take the inpatients. Every passing dog probably pees at the entrance, but it's a stone wall.

I'd say it's a minor concern if everything else ticks the boxes

RE: Starting up

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:49:49 GMT

It's very hard to find the perfect building and if it's right in many other respects then this would be a minor concern. You could place a plant trough outside the door as a decoy, they will kindly pee up that for you instead (we had to chain ours through the bottom of our pots to prevent them being pinched). It could be scrubbed or replaced.

Parking and noise abatement are bigger worries for planning permission.

RE: Starting up

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:24:12 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Guess my main worry is that they'll end up peeing up the front door frame and over time a horrible smell will become ingrained.[/quote]

They will anyway

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Am I overthinking this?[/quote]

Yes, hard to find the perfect building. We looked for one for almost 2 years.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]One of my biggest concerns with it is that there's nowhere for dogs to relieve themselves in front of the building,[/quote]

To be fair a few of our clients mentioned it and they do like some grass around the building.

RE: Starting up

An On MRCVS — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:13:53 GMT

Hello everyone again,

Wondered if I can pick brains a bit more? I have found a potential property, nothing certain and very early stages of looking into it. One of my biggest concerns with it is that there's nowhere for dogs to relieve themselves in front of the building, and a small stretch of grass around the back where staff could take in patients to stretch their legs. Has anyone had a similar set up and do you find it matters if there's nowhere for dogs to go outside before they come in? Guess my main worry is that they'll end up peeing up the front door frame and over time a horrible smell will become ingrained. Obviously can wash down as much as feasible but unlikely to be possible after every single dog... Is also rented so don't want to create problems from that side of things etc too.

Am I overthinking this?

Thanks

RE: Starting up

Liz Barton — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:36:15 GMT

You may find that - if you sell out to corporate - other vets may be looking to move/startup and you can always discuss if any of your trusted colleagues would be interested in starting up with you.

RE: Starting up

Julie Innes — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 14:45:28 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]

Does anyone think it's possible to make a living simply by seeing patients, taking a good history, doing a clinical exam and giving advice based purely on this? The majority of our consults just require reassurance and practical solutions. Doing a blood test and sending to external lab is easy enough. Anything beyond that is referred to the nearest hospital.

I'm curious, it seems to work for GPs, but has anyone ever tried it in the Veterinary world?

[/quote]

Sounds a bit like my first job! It was just a waiting room, reception then consulting room. We operated on the consulting table (obviously not at the same time!) wheeled the old ex-NHS xray machine across when necessary, and developed the xrays in the toilet! We had kennels under the kitchen unit where you wrote up your notes. Blood tests went to the external lab. The only ultrasound we had was for cattle, and we had to "borrow" it off the main practice (we were a branch) I'm sure modern graduates would baulk at it, but we really didn't have many issues! I did all sorts of surgeries- including things I would probably think twice about now!- in that room

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 11:10:09 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I can understand where you're coming from but then it kind of limits an individual's scope to improve and progress certain clinical skills, I would find a job like that rather dull. [/quote]

True, if forever, but when you start you only see small numbers of clients so your "improving skills" will take time and, if you start with all the bells and whistles, not give a good return on investment.

Some go broke!

Until you have the client numbers to pay for the kit and give you the numbers to improve your skills refer the few you get.

You can always attend the referral practice to learn skills if your new practice hasn't the numbers?

RE: Starting up

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:29:23 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]I'm curious, it seems to work for GPs, but has anyone ever tried it in the Veterinary world?[/quote]

I can understand where you're coming from but then it kind of limits an individual's scope to improve and progress certain clinical skills, I would find a job like that rather dull.

RE: Starting up

Miriam Lodewyks — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 13:18:10 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] vets going back to "putting up their plate"[/quote]

So this has caused me to ponder: why don't more vets just "put up their plate"? Is it truly necessary for every practice to have every diagnostic gadget that's out there, as well as kennels, treatment rooms and operating theatres?

I'm curious, it seems to work for GPs, but has anyone ever tried it in the Veterinary world?

RE: Starting up

Clive Ansell — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 18:34:08 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Also NVS rep told us and I quote: you must realise that the future is corporate.[/quote]

I am not so sure that it is.

I am still seeing a small but ever growing number of clients that ask if a practice is corporate owned or not. They express a wish not to spend their hard earned with a faceless money making machine.

One independent practice I work for is busier than ever, in fact snowed under with work. They have a steady stream of second opinions and new clients that defect from the local corporates, the sweatshops and the franchises. So much so that they get clinical histories and vet prospective new clients for suitability, with some being declined.

One of the other corporate I work for occasionally, seem to be tightening the purse strings. They have recently introduced flexitime and a ban on overtime for nurses, not replacing staff that leave, and promised new equipment. some building work, and decorating have been put on hold.

watch this space I would say.

RE: Starting up

Richard Carter — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:48:22 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Dinu about buying groups. I'm costing everything up according to standard sales prices so that I have a worst case scenario, but would be keen for any thoughts as to which buying groups to join, and similarly if there are any equipment suppliers that anyone particularly recommends going with or avoiding[/quote]

send me a PM - we in buying group Vetcel, wholesalers HS but also can talk about kennels, properties as have done the leasing industrial unit and now have own place in residential area

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:57:59 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]t's just a form of peer to peer lending. Everybody wins. Except the banks.[/quote]

I do P2P lending but, while the returns are much higher than any other saving return, you are lending to the unknown, "vetted" but so what...

A private mortgage is usually between two parties than know each other to a varying degree except with vets, usually, as both parties have a good knowledge of each other, as I did with my two, even though they were not vets.

Er, I can give you all the bad things about partnerships though....

Still waiting for Niall to give us all the bad things, unless it was a wind-up?

RE: Starting up

An On MRCVS — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:54:39 GMT

Brilliant, thanks again for the input. It seems like you can make types of premises work then, with pros and cons of each - I am sitting on the fence as to whether I'd rather live above the practice or not - the banging on the doors is a definite downside although good to know it doesn't happen too often.

Thanks for the tip Dinu about buying groups. I'm costing everything up according to standard sales prices so that I have a worst case scenario, but would be keen for any thoughts as to which buying groups to join, and similarly if there are any equipment suppliers that anyone particularly recommends going with or avoiding?

Also, trying to put together a relatively comprehensive business plan. Would anyone be able to help me with general ballpark figures for what it costs for insurance (public liability/employers liability/building/VDS cover), clinical waste disposal (and again, any recommended companies?!) and the cost of sorting out/maintaining health and safety requirements?

Again, very grateful for all the help - in hindsight I should have paid more attention to these things in the past!

Thanks :-)

RE: Starting up

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:00:26 GMT

It's just a form of peer to peer lending. Everybody wins. Except the banks.

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:54:29 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Thank you Anthony. Excuse my ignorance but why would be a bad thing?[/quote]

I'm still waiting for an answer, i can't think of any provided, obviously, both the buyer and seller agree.

There are just so many advantages!

RE: Starting up

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:38:48 GMT

Thank you Anthony. Excuse my ignorance but why would be a bad thing?

Anon, forgot to say. Consider joining a buying group. I would advise not to go with VetShare.

Also NVS rep told us and I quote: you must realise that the future is corporate. As a consequence I moved from them the following week.

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:46:14 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]What is a private mortgage?[/quote]

A loan, in effect, with security and terms which are agreeable to both parties, usually the buyer and the seller.

"Secured" on the value of the asset, ie the premises, or the practice, or both. [they are intimately connected obviously]

The "terms", uniquely, can be intimately tailored by agreement between the parties, the direct opposite, to a commercial mortgage.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5133888

This link, and others, gives more information if you search "private mortgage"

RE: Starting up

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 11:20:49 GMT

What is a private mortgage?

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:48:39 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Obviously it should go without saying you should never, under any circs arrange a 'private' mortgage of any kind.[/quote]

Please tell me exactly why, cos i did it twice, once to buy and once to sell.

Wish I had done them all that way, but couldn't in the others.

I saved thousands at a time when I needed every penny and wouldn't have had a chance [and nor could my buyer] of getting a commercial mortgage, independent of the financial and personal advantages to both parties.

RE: Starting up

Niall Taylor — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 08:21:57 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]... if possible, arrange a private mortgage with the vendor...[/quote]

Obviously it should go without saying you should never, under any circs arrange a 'private' mortgage of any kind.

Anthony, whatever you are smoking, I'll have some of it too

Niall

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 03:04:22 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]You'll need to formulate a policy as to what to do when t***s come thumping the door and throwing gravel at your bedroom window at 2 in the morning[/quote]

Oh so true, and a real pain but only happened once.

We, the local vets, started a rota [I've said this all before] which worked amazingly well as all appreciated the times off.

Worth a try in areas without a dedicated 24hour facility.

RE: Starting up

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:36:19 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Buy a shop with upper part where you can live cheaply [/quote]

You'll need to formulate a policy as to what to do when t***s come thumping the door and throwing gravel at your bedroom window at 2 in the morning.

RE: Starting up

Anthony Todd — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:37:50 GMT

Shop rents, certainly in London, are plummeting apparently because of on-line trading and I would expect this to be happening UK wide.

Buy a shop with upper part where you can live cheaply and, as I said, if possible, arrange a private mortgage with the vendor so the vendor gets a return on his sale rather than the commercial mortgager.

Used to be very easy to do and can be done without all the hoops the banks etc. require you to jump through and all the add-on fees they apply, as well as being able to tailor the terms to suit both parties.

PS applies to buying a practice too. particularly if from your boss.

Saves a fortune!!

RE: Starting up

Bob Russell — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 14:27:34 GMT

A shop with accommodation above (or any residence above) can be a problem as the planners may invoke building regs for sound insulation. This can be expensive!

Worth talking to your local council.

If you are very, very lucky you may find a residential property that someone is already running a business from. This could make change of use easier.

Renting/leasing is lower risk in many ways and does not require the same level of investment.