Brexits going well isn't it?

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:50:23 GMT

Yeah you are right, they are too separate issues. But I still think free movement is problematic. What happens when everyone wants to move to the UK because the Mediterranean is too hot???

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:02:31 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245462#245462"]Yes, but are they wrong?[/quote]

I don't know if they are wrong or not but this is not about free movement. Free movement would work fine for the EU if the EU borders weren't so porous. The illegal immigration they're trying to stop is not caused by free movement. See the example of Britain. No free movement, best border you could have (island) and illegal immigration galore.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 12:17:31 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245461#245461"]Well, well, Brexiteers saying I told you so:[/quote]

Yes, but are they wrong?

I voted remain, but I always felt that free movement is unsustainable.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 21:41:23 GMT

Well, well, Brexiteers saying I told you so:

www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 08:58:03 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245446#245446"]DMA and the UK's equivalent DMCC[/quote]

thanks Arlo! now that's encouraging I hope AI implementations will go through and that the UK's equivalent is different enough from the European to allow the research in this field. It'll be easy to know soon anyway, it's a poor example but.., the new iPhone that's coming out in a few weeks will be different for the EU due to AI inclusion and EU DMA restrictions, so it'll be a European iPhone less powerful and innovative, different from the American, if we don't get it it means AI can be used and implemented unless the UK DMA expected to enter into force in Autumn 2024 will come after the release of the phone in that case what will be the rules applying for this matter?

updated

The European Union’s strategy to regulate the digital ecosystem is anchored by three key legislative frameworks: the Digital Services Act (DSA), the Digital Markets Act (DMA), and the Artificial Intelligence Act (AI Act).

So yes there's an AI act in the European DMA, not sure about the UK

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 08:03:08 GMT

Cinzia Gandini I went to read up on this, and can't so far find reference to the DMA being about AI. It seems to me to be about controlling large companies in the digital market.

This article nicely explains the difference between the DMA and the UK's equivalent DMCC, which seems to be a little looser than the EU version (which will either give UK companies greater freedom to innovate, or help them abuse the rules, take your pick!)

https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2023/04/new-uk-digital-markets-regime-key-differences-with-the-eu-digital-markets-act

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 10:26:32 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245371#245371"]technological advances[/quote]

Btw do you know or anyone knows if the EU’s Digital Markets Act (DMA) is also applying to the UK despite not being part of it? I'm asking because it'll limit the use of AI and AI software and so the possibility of solving problems, as you mentioned, will be very limited or reduced to zero, compared to the US.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

David Mills — Wed, 28 Aug 2024 22:07:31 GMT

Neil Wheadon keep hold of that old banger - Keir is going to sort it all (in 6 months)

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:11:13 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245371#245371"]What I meant by that is that there will be technological advances to speed the process. In the future, perhaps they can just do everything with your fingerprint (checkin, security, passport control etc).[/quote]

Sorry Arlo, that's not going to happen anytime soon. The chip on your passport that the ereaders read have all your biometric information, so the system is there, that's why everyone flies through an egate. Mission Impossible (the film) this is not

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 11:08:36 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245370#245370"]It can't get quicker as you need your picture taken and your finger prints taken electronically, sorry everyone take a picnic with you[/quote]

What I meant by that is that there will be technological advances to speed the process. In the future, perhaps they can just do everything with your fingerprint (checkin, security, passport control etc).

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 10:59:27 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245357#245357"]

It doesn't seem like a particularly big deal - apply on an app, and ...

Most applications will be approved within minutes, although it can take up to 72 hours

[/quote]

Yup, exactly the same as the USA. Mine came through after 2 hours.

One of the points I'm making here is that 7 euros is just the start. The USA started at $4 and this year is $21. The EU one will increase to a 'normal' visa level which varies from £20-£70/person. So for a family of 4 going for a weeks holiday.... well do the maths.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245357#245357"]More concerned about EES actually, which threatens to increase processing time at the border from 45 seconds to 3 minutes, which could make for hellish queues. But maybe the estimates are wrong, or they will find new ways of making it quicker (after all, they do want our tourist £££)[/quote]

3 minutes is fast. Even to get into Japan this year and you need no visa, took an age. It can't get quicker as you need your picture taken and your finger prints taken electronically, sorry everyone take a picnic with you

Neil

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

David Mills — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:28:40 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245360#245360"]long term lower productivity, reduced trade, increased migration, ongoing settlement costs for leaving (https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#indepth) but we showed them by taking back control and got brexit done![/quote]

1. Productivity has been stubbornly stalled for >10y, in the public sector even longer. That's a UK problem.

2. The UK has signed the most comprehensive trade deal the EU has ever made in its history, with the EU. Trade has been little affected in real terms. What you have quoted is the OBR, who on pretty much a monthly basis have been wrong about inflation, growth and economic performance for years. Their role unfortunately has been strengthened by Labour who have elevated this opaque quango essentially as a subcontracted yes/no body for economic decisions (possibly to assuage any issues about the "blackhole" narrative they are pushing that they knew full well about before the election). Their forecasts are always pessimistic and almost always wrong. Trade globally is still recovering from that small matter of a pandemic, and inflation hasn't helped.

3. Migration has increased but a lot is for professions (not least academics who we were told were leaving in droves - more remainer nonsense). Twas ever thus. The flip side is the huge increase in people out of work on long-term disability etc which has sky rocketed since covid.

4. Costs for leaving is such a nebulous term it has little real-world significance.

I don't think Brexiteers are crowing about the referendum. It's the Remainers that like to continue the narrative. It's pretty tiresome. The country is economically f'kd for a decade paying off the covid costs and the huge costs from the contaminated blood scandal, PO scandal, and in time Grenfell. Meanwhile we see Labour caving in to almost every strike despite the Tories apparently wrecking the economy. Funny isn't it...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/18/cabinet-ministers-accepted-480000-unions-striking-pay-deals/

It ain't going to get better anytime soon, and just wait for the tax on the successful in the budget.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Beats — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:24:47 GMT

In my small little bubble of bring a vet I judge Brexit success on the freedom front on whether I am still a cascade-slave or free like an Aussie.

Still in my own little vet bubble, I judge the inconvenience aspect on the 6 months and counting since I made a grave error of judgement in buying a replacement blood machine from England and the fact that I still receive an average of 3 emails a week in relation to that. I cancelled all elective surgeries for the day two weeks ago to try to finally be done with the insane, incomprehensible acronym-littered computer-work, thought I had nailed it on discovering that the one remaining mysterious TSS invoice number that was an obligatory field was actually for my own reference only and I could place the number "1" and not risk prosecution for an erroneous supporting document declaration for a TSS, and that the weight should have been entered to 2 decimal places only. And not to worry, if I had found the system too complicated for my simple brain, then there was another training course I could now attend for the replacement UKIMS scheme. OK, I'm thinking that sounds good actually if it saves me a similar headache in the future, perhaps I should cancel that holiday I was going to take and swot up instead on my new favourite site: https://www.nicustomstradeacademy.co.uk/

but then I realised (or so I think, it would take another few hours/days to know for sure) that I would still have to complete mostly the same stuff with SFD's, EORI's, etc, just with the option of selecting something else on a drop down list which may or may not mean that HMRC don't hassle me about undeclared customs in the future quite so much. I have so much more sympathy for the guy from the garden centre up the road now than I ever did.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

David Mills — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:14:39 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245355#245355"]Britons travelling to Europe next summer will need to apply for a €7 visa waiver, officials in Brussels have confirmed.[/quote]

No different to the tourist tax people have had to pay in several countries for years! Italy, Spain, have all had euros added to the hotel bill for years. It's 7E for 3 years! Grow up man Hardly going to make or break a holiday when you pay more to sit next to your beloved on budget airlines. Reminds me of that line - we'll spend £5+ on a pint but won't spend £8 to sit next to our partner on a plane.

What I have found is that when arriving at airports in the EU since brexit passport control is a dream - the plane has its own lane to get passports stamped, and its very quick. Then on the way back just sail through the electronic gates.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:29:48 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245359#245359"]Brexiteers will have the luxury of knowing what happened, and either saying 'shit, we screwed that up' or 'thank god we voted brexit'.[/quote]

On my way to shove a fork in the power socket. I can't live without the luxury of knowing what will happen otherwise.

The most unfortunate thing about Brexit is that no control was taken back and I can't see it happening in the next decades.

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 19:09:35 GMT

long term lower productivity, reduced trade, increased migration, ongoing settlement costs for leaving (https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#indepth) but we showed them by taking back control and got brexit done!

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 18:16:18 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245358#245358"]I don’t think Brexiteers will ever be convinced that brexit hasn’t delivered a land of milk and honey! [/quote]

Rob Loxley I don't think anyone think it has delivered that, but equally I don't think remainers will ever be convinced that it was a good idea to exit a socialist political project we never signed up for in the first place!

Actually, now you make me think about it, I suspect Remainers will remain permanently unreconciled with Brexit, because you can never remove the 'what if', whereas Brexiteers will have the luxury of knowing what happened, and either saying 'shit, we screwed that up' or 'thank god we voted brexit'.

But the time frame for reaching that conclusion is, I think, far more distant than the 3 and a half years we have had so far. I think we need at least 10, probably 20 years and maybe even 30 before we'll know whether Brexit was indeed a good or a bad thing.

For the moment, I would say most people, even Brexiteers, see more negatives than positives. But we are only a short time into things, and there have been a few other distractions in between, like covid.

(Note, I voted remain!)

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:42:06 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245355#245355"]Still think it's worth all the hassle?[/quote]

I don’t think Brexiteers will ever be convinced that brexit hasn’t delivered a land of milk and honey!

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:33:18 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245355#245355"]Still think it's worth all the hassle?[/quote]

It doesn't seem like a particularly big deal - apply on an app, and ...

Most applications will be approved within minutes, although it can take up to 72 hours

More concerned about EES actually, which threatens to increase processing time at the border from 45 seconds to 3 minutes, which could make for hellish queues. But maybe the estimates are wrong, or they will find new ways of making it quicker (after all, they do want our tourist £££)

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 15:29:57 GMT

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/transport/article/britons-travelling-europe-visa-summer-2025-lr8xjm6m5?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Best%20of%20Times%20-%2020%20August%202024&utm_term=audience_BEST_OF_TIMES

Britons travelling to Europe next summer will need to apply for a €7 visa waiver, officials in Brussels have confirmed.

Ylva Johansson, the EU home affairs commissioner, said that the European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) was on course to launch in spring.

Passengers visiting the bloc will be required to apply for a waiver — similar to the US Esta — before travel. It will be valid for three years or until your passport expires, whichever is first.

Still think it's worth all the hassle? I've just applied for a USA ESTA, started at $4, now $21. So for a family of 4, the USA fee will be roughly what we were paying to the EU/person before the fiasco

Neil

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:23:56 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245231#245231"]5 minutes[/quote]

I don’t think Neil was referring to the length of the queues

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 21:54:28 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245224#245224"]Brilliant[/quote]

...retire there will be impossible

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 21:52:23 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245224#245224"]Does this mean no stamps in the passport? I bloody love them[/quote]

No stamps (EES), you will need to register for a visa and a fee to pay to enter the EU like for Esta (ETIAS)

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 21:44:57 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245224#245224"]They will take bright students to study pretty much anywhere.[/quote]

You will need a visa and a health insurance and it won't be possible to open a bank account, it will be only for very wealthy people, while for Europeans it's open to anyone

RE: Brexits going well isn't it?

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 06 Aug 2024 15:18:39 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/26401/brexits-going-well-isn-t-it/245149#245149"]Edit, this sounds a bit harsh. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't care about economic growth. What I care about is the ability to travel freely and not have my finger prints taken or apply for a visa, to not embark on the reply to my Dutch friends conversation 'Are you OK?' as that's how many Europeans look on the British now. To allow my children to access Europe and work there, but mostly to feel part of a continent that has been through so much strife but has largely healed itself.[/quote]

Just shows how different we all are. I only care about economic growth. I don't care about visa, passports and fingerprints. All airports are anyway a mess, it makes no difference what passport you have and where you come from. 5 minutes more or less means absolutely nothing.