A wee rant!

RE: A wee rant!

David Mills — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 01:03:03 GMT

[quote user="vs0u "]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

Clients always think they are the first ones ever to say these hilarious comments. They have no idea how incredibly irritating they are being. i have spent years gritting my teeth and seeing them get into their top of the range land rovers and driving away completely oblivious of how you want to plunge a large gauge needle into their arrogant backsides. Response is futile , rise above it and enjoy your holiday and your new car and do not give them a second thought.

[/quote]

Even when you work in PDSA they still say it, when you tell them their out of hours visit has cost the charity £75 and give them the little envelope and they grudgingly put 25 p in it. When you look in the staff car park at PDSA it's full of 10 year old micras but the client car park has the aforementioned brand new range rovers etc.

[/quote]

RE: A wee rant!

vs0u — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:03:16 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

[/quote]

RE: A wee rant!

Glenn Hodgson — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 21:18:59 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

Better to just be blunt about it and say , "when I retire the state will in all likelihood be stuffed and give me the square root of FA in pensions in spite of the fact that during my working life of 11-14 hour days 6 days a week plus on call duties I or my business will have generated and given to the exchequer around 250k a year in corporation tax PAYE and VAT . So when I retire I will do so with a nice house , a nice car , a second home in France and enough money to enjoy the rest of my life because I bloody well earned it. If you have no money go to the PDSA. "

[/quote]

Yes, say that next time! We have a poet among us!

RE: A wee rant!

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 20:22:51 GMT

RE: A wee rant!

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 18:07:32 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I pay vet fees now and although I shouldn’t be[/quote]Pity you don't live near me Clare, I would not charge a retired vet normal fees I would do (have done) it at cost.

This is one of my greatest fears of retirement, not just paying for veterinary care but entrusting my pets to someone I would worry was not as good as me. I'm sure I would be total pain in the proverbial.

[/quote]thanks for the thought Martin . I go to my old practice and I know the vet very well as she is a previous employee of course and also one of my oldest friends. I would never dream of expecting freebies, she works for CVS now and I expect her to charge me and I have insured my dog.

RE: A wee rant!

grumpyoldman — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:58:24 GMT

RE: A wee rant!

Julie Innes — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:44:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

This is one of my greatest fears of retirement, not just paying for veterinary care but entrusting my pets to someone I would worry was not as good as me. I'm sure I would be total pain in the prover

[/quote]

I have a couple of local retired vets on my books- one is the vet who mentored me as a student, he delights in making me nervous!! I don't charge them time, only for drugs, and I am happy for them to administer vaccines etc to their own pets, or use my facilities to operate on their own pets. Martin, I can imagine you would be a nightmare client!!! . I'd show you the dispensary and the theatre and let you get on with it!

RE: A wee rant!

Clive Ansell — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:36:46 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]There are no pedants here, surely? [/quote]

No, but there are Pedant's

RE: A wee rant!

Edward Jones — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:17:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]16.666666....% if you want to be pedantic![/quote]

There are no pedants here, surely?

RE: A wee rant!

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:49:20 GMT

RE: A wee rant!

J G Wray — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:54:18 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I think we underestimate the surprise factor of veterinary fees and can misinterpret the clients genuine surprise as resentment or criticism.[/quote]

Brian Faulkner and a slew of other consultants have neat discussions and techniques surrounding this. They all charge for this training, but BF can be accessed through SPVS.

RE: A wee rant!

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:26:52 GMT

I think we underestimate the surprise factor of veterinary fees and can misinterpret the clients genuine surprise as resentment or criticism. The general public has some idea of roughly how much most other things cost but no idea about vet fees and so going to the vet is a leap into the unknown with no ballpark figure in their heads. Although owning a pet is not a necessity, once they do and it becomes ill, the vet bills have to be paid and are not perceived to have been a matter of lifestyle choice. They feel ambushed by unplanned for expenditure so they take it out on the vet.

I pay vet fees now and although I shouldn’t be , even I am sometimes a bit startled by the total, and may look it too , but I never begrudge paying just as I do not begrudge paying my dentist with his beautiful modern well equipped surgery.

We should help our vets to stop feeling apologetic and being tempted to discount and if we’ve done a decent job we deserve to be paid in full just like everyone else. All those clients who have been saved £25 and long forgotten it soon after leaving the surgery could have paid for better equipment and higher salaries.

RE: A wee rant!

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:14:17 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]16.7% of the invoice total goes as VAT.[/quote]16.666666....% if you want to be pedantic!

Plus of that 20% which ostensibly goes to the vets for their share, a proportion will need to be reinvested in equipment etc.

RE: A wee rant!

Edward Jones — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:10:18 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]20% of the money you hand over goes straight to the government as VAT[/quote]

Whilst it's a good article, this is wrong. 16.7% of the invoice total goes as VAT.

RE: A wee rant!

Wren — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:44:38 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

The cost of running a veterinary service is surprisingly high. This shows how the money you give a vet is divided, you may be surprised at the breakdown. As an approximate guide:

20% of the money you hand over goes straight to the government as VAT
Around 20% goes to pay for veterinary nurses, receptionists and other support staff

Around 20% goes to pay for the cost of drugs and other stock items
Around 20% goes to pay for building, heating, lighting etc
Around 20% is passed on to the vets, as their income

Maybe that should be displayed as a poster in your practice?

[/quote]

Or (to link to the other thread...) printed out and pinned on the walls above every computer to remind vets of the cost of giving 'free' consultations!

RE: A wee rant!

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:19:13 GMT

I though this article about vet fees in the Telegraph was quite good:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/pets/news-features/pet-costs-do-vets-charge-much/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_fb

In particular this bit:

The cost of running a veterinary service is surprisingly high. This shows how the money you give a vet is divided, you may be surprised at the breakdown. As an approximate guide:

20% of the money you hand over goes straight to the government as VAT
Around 20% goes to pay for veterinary nurses, receptionists and other support staff

Around 20% goes to pay for the cost of drugs and other stock items
Around 20% goes to pay for building, heating, lighting etc
Around 20% is passed on to the vets, as their income

Maybe that should be displayed as a poster in your practice?

RE: A wee rant!

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:46:40 GMT

[quote user="Alistair Graham-Evans"]Not a list but a pretty comprehensive post-op information sheet explaining what has been done.[/quote]

Well, the distinction I am trying to make between a ticked checklist and an information sheet is that the list is a personalised list (ticked and initialled) of items that the client's money has been spent on. You don't get quite that same sense of 'this is where my money went' with a generic information sheet.

[quote user="Alistair Graham-Evans"]For example explain why we are checking the mouth and teeth for problems at admission ( which is really a free consultation) and tell the owner that any nail trim or anal gland emptying has been done as a free service.[/quote]

Bingo, that's another thing I see on the garage list from time to time: a few free of charge items (I dunno, refill windscreen water reservoir or something).

Great opportunity to thrown in a few items marked Free Of Charge, so they really can't quibble, and again adding to the sense of value.

RE: A wee rant!

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:38:25 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Is anyone doing a list of this kind?[/quote]

Not a list but a pretty comprehensive post-op information sheet explaining what has been done.

For example explain why we are checking the mouth and teeth for problems at admission ( which is really a free consultation) and tell the owner that any nail trim or anal gland emptying has been done as a free service. We'll often trim hair around eyes of some breeds (with permission) and advise on eye care as well.

I guess in Australia clients have a better idea of healthcare costs as unless you have a healthcare card you pay the doctor and claim some of the fee back from Medicare and pay for prescriptions at the pharmacy.

Some stuff we do seems so obvious but the client has no idea unless it is communicated. People probably remember about 10% of what is discussed in the consult room so important things have to be repeated or written. Despite that this week I have had to re-operate on a tibial crest after the dog chased a cat, repair a wound drain after it was chewed and replace 2 trashed bandages despite advise on use of Elizabethan collars!

RE: A wee rant!

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:37:48 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I think a list is a great idea...but.... to compare with a garage...you'll always get the folk who say 'but I didn't ask you to change the wipers or top up the screenwash so I want that deducting.' I can just see people saying ' but I didn't need a discharge appointment to discuss aftercare because I've had dogs operated on before...' [/quote]

I think that's really just a question of framing the information in such a way as they can see that these things are not optional extras.

Also, one would hope the number of people who might be impressed by seeing all the things that went into the treatment for their pet would far outweigh the number who complained that there was something on the list they didn't want (esp if framed carefully).

Perhaps worth trialling?

RE: A wee rant!

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:05:47 GMT

I do agree Arlo, that we should address comments like these. Afterall, unless we tell them, how do people know what good value we are? I think a list is a great idea...but.... to compare with a garage...you'll always get the folk who say 'but I didn't ask you to change the wipers or top up the screenwash so I want that deducting.' I can just see people saying ' but I didn't need a discharge appointment to discuss aftercare because I've had dogs operated on before...'

The problem with comments like the one made to the OP is that they are constant...both within and outside working hours. Afterall, it is common knowledge that vets charge too much and earn even more. I guess after a while most of us stop listening.....

RE: A wee rant!

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:54:32 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I agree with Arlo.[/quote]Thank god for that, I was starting to feel a bit alone there!

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I don't think dismissing this helps perception.[/quote] No, it doesn't. But equally, I'd say to anyone who just dismisses this kind of reaction from a client: why NOT use it as a prompt to think about ways of communicating value better? I mean, it won't do any harm!

[quote user="Alistair Graham-Evans"]But we do need to explain more about what they are getting for their money. Sometimes I'll tell clients what our X-ray facilities cost , or the price of an i-stat machine while I'm checking a blood parameter. They are usually surprised.

I keep meaning to make a video about what happens during the day of a bitch spay[/quote]

Got me thinking, that did.

Another service that I use which rarely has any obvious tangible benefit is ...

... getting the car serviced.

Now I know there are some who are not going to like the comparison with a mechanic, but bear with me.

Car was working when I took it in. Spends a few hours at the garage. Then I collect it. It still works. I can't actually see that they've changed the oil or the spark plugs or the brake fluid (actually, I sometimes wonder if they did). I come to collect the car, pay my £200-£400. For what? Does the car brake any better? Nope. Run smoother? Nope.

The two things the garage does to show 'value'.

Most importantly, when I collect the car, it comes with a tickbox list of everything done, initialled by the mechanic.

Alistair Graham-Evans - prompted by your video idea (which is great: can go on website, youtube, perhaps play in reception etc., but because it's a video, not every client will see), I was wondering whether a written version of what you are talking about, like the tickbox list the garage supplies when I collect the car, might work.

I'm thinking a pre-prepared word document list on the computer of the things that are common to 90% of admissions, plus the ability to add specific items (for example, specific surgery types).

I'd include things which seem obvious to you, but which need spelling out to the client that they take up your time (admission itself, for example, as you have already said).

Print out on good quality paper, VS ticks all the boxes and initials. Handed to client with invoice.

The other thing the garage does, which gives a sense of value way out of proportion to the cost to them, is wash the car. Particularly noticeable in my case, because I never do.

Not suggesting you wash every dog, just a train of thought ...

Is anyone doing a list of this kind? Does anyone think there is something in it? If no and yes, shall we develop the list here?

RE: A wee rant!

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:53:49 GMT

I wonder how many of the moaners ever wonder to themselves how much their own boss earns relative to their own pay and moan about that. In the case of a large multi-national company its likely to be millions.

RE: A wee rant!

Edward Jones — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:52:44 GMT

Put your prices up so they piss off somewhere else.

RE: A wee rant!

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:34:43 GMT

Some people are moaners and probably complain about fees wherever they go.

But we do need to explain more about what they are getting for their money. Sometimes I'll tell clients what our X-ray facilities cost , or the price of an i-stat machine while I'm checking a blood parameter. They are usually surprised.

I keep meaning to make a video about what happens during the day of a bitch spay - to show admission, any blood work, premed and pain relief, fluids, monitoring during anaesthesia, surgery, nurses dealing with kit sterilisation, hospital facilities and post - op monitoring, further pain relief, going home appointment and discussion of aftercare, availability to discuss any problems post-op, wound care etc Pretty good value I reckon! It is easy to assume clients know what we do - they don't ! I'll get around to it one day and may u-tube it.

RE: A wee rant!

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:25:37 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]a challenge, rather than a personal slight: She isn't seeing the value.[/quote]

Nah. She's just being extremely rude. Some people are like that.

[/quote]

I agree with Arlo. I don't think dismissing this helps perception. Too many people are like that.

People should be saying 'Im glad she's going on holidays, she deserves it for her amazing work'

Just this week a client complained about having to pay £2.50 for a sharp container because she has been 'a client for 15 years' and another that how can a mucolytic powder can cost £6? However, I've been seen to pay £5.10 for a pint in some hotels. Did not complain. In fact, I never seen someone complaining about service that I perceive of being less specialised than ours. I wonder why.