Animal Welfare at Slaughter

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Stephen Pointing — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 17:33:02 GMT

Of course you're right. Slaughter halls tend to be rather noisy places. I could barely hear what the slaughter man was saying and I was listening very intently. I think a true Muslim would believe that all creatures have been "designed" by God and are, therefore, also subject to some of the rules which are written in the Koran.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 08:28:48 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Pointing"]

During our export season down here all our sheep and lambs are killed for the halal market - but we insist that all animals are pre-stunned. when chatting to the Muslim slaughter man one day I asked him what he said and why he said it and why did he prefer the animals not to have been pre-stunned even though stunning hadn't killed them. His rather surprising answer was that the words which he said from the Koran weren't just for the benefit of Muslims who were going to eat the meat but also for the benefit of the animals which were being slaughtered and if they were stunned then they couldn't hear those words!

[/quote][quote user="Stephen Pointing"]His rather surprising answer was that the words which he said from the Koran weren't just for the benefit of Muslims who were going to eat the meat but also for the benefit of the animals which were being slaughtered and if they were stunned then they couldn't hear those words![/quote]

Aside from whether it's appropriate to a) anthropomorphise to this extent and b) impose your religious beliefs on someone/ something else without their consent, at the speed most lamb lines move I can't imagine the sheep hearing much more than a fragment of anything!

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Stephen Pointing — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 18:03:21 GMT

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Bob Russell — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:44:20 GMT

No reason why stunning should not be compulsory, much of the Halal slaughter in the UK does involve stunning.

Those insistent on the animal being conscious might be allowed to import (hopefully at great expense) suitable meat but nothing should be done to make it easy.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:23:05 GMT

Interestingly, before I left NZ, all beef produced there was by halal slaughter methods apart from one plant - and that was because there was no practical way to face the animals in the required direction at that location. All were pre-stunned (religious requirement for a recoverable stun, i.e. head only electrical, not a bolt or a head-and-heart electrical stun) - no compromise on welfare requirements, as met all the requirements for pre-slaughter stunning (Professor Mellor produced some very interesting studies on time to recovery from stun vs time to insensibility from blood loss). So halal can be achieved with good welfare, equally one can insist that pre-slaughter stunning is carried out without preventing the production of halal meat.

I believe the requirements for shechita slaughter is that the animal is alive and conscious and that stunning is not permitted.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

J G Wray — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 15:13:49 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]What's your solution? [/quote]

Support the BVA line - are you a member?

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Or do you not think its a problem that needs solving?[/quote]

As much as any member of BVA

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Are you happy to continue eating meat that may not have been pre stunned?[/quote]

Ah, now that's where I'm lucky since I buy from a client, a local butcher who saw the traceability light a while ago

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]And if some ritual slaughter has been pre stunned why can we not insist that all animals are stunned?[/quote]

Because it isn't just a welfare issue, it's also v political.

You can feel strongly about this even to the point of marching on Parliament if you like, but you will be shoulder to shoulder with some pretty unsavoury people. This issue isn't monochrome.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:50:28 GMT

Ok, let's leave words like Halal and kosher out of it for now and stick to pre stunned or not stunned. The figures are still shocking and show a 15% rise in non stunned poultry and 7% increase in sheep and goats since 2013.

What's your solution? Or do you not think its a problem that needs solving? Are you happy to continue eating meat that may not have been pre stunned?

And if some ritual slaughter has been pre stunned why can we not insist that all animals are stunned?

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:41:59 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

As a vet and a human being I believe animal welfare takes priority over illogical religious practices. This is one reason I gave up eating meat - I don't want to eat Halal meat that has not been labelled as such and entered general consumption.

[/quote]

While I agree with you that all animals should be stunned before slaughter I think you need to be a little more careful how you phrase it, my understanding is that a significant proportion of Halal slaughtered animals are pre-stunned.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

J G Wray — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:39:59 GMT

As a vet, just like you, I think that there are sensitivities here that are not best served by absolutism and a vegetarian agenda.

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:33:14 GMT

RE: Animal Welfare at Slaughter

J G Wray — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:19:07 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Time to follow other countries eg Denmark and ban ritual slaughter. [/quote]

This is , ahem, meat and drink to those with Right wing, anti-Islamic, anti-Judaic views. Cool heads, not rhetoric, are needed here.