RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

grumpyoldman — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:01:20 GMT

I think the catering and delegate care are probably better in the USA and parts of Europe, but that is only personal experience. The hotel that holds the courses in Swindon reminds me of Jack Nicholson in The Shining with all those long straight narrow corridors and noisy plumbing, weird buffet mix and match lunches. I always take the staff out to lunch at the BSAVA and let them eat the packed lunches on the train on the way home.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Sarah Keir — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 16:55:34 GMT

And conference organisers have to get the money from somewhere. Perhaps the CPD fees do cover the majority of the costs but I wouldn't be surprised that there are big kickbacks from pharmaceuticals.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 16:29:01 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

The difference in USA vs UK is very likely due to drug company subsidisation levels for paying esteemed lecturers, posh hotels, 'free' lunches etc.

[/quote]

No, it was paid by the conference organisers and thus they got the best speakers and the most delegates.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Sarah Keir — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:45:26 GMT

The difference in USA vs UK is very likely due to drug company subsidisation levels for paying esteemed lecturers, posh hotels, 'free' lunches etc.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:38:16 GMT

so you're missing out on the wider array of specialists.

The US conferences used to pay their speakers; the UK ones didn't, certainly BSAVA didn't ,speakers did it for kudos only back in the day, .

Don't know if they are paid now nor how much??

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:28:11 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I might see if the developers can write me a simple bit of code that will allow me to see whodunnit.[/quote]

Which will make absolutely no difference to what some of us want.

eg. If I'd one starred your post others could think anything they like, but wouldn't [probably] think it was because there wasn't a reason to one-star.

If the one starrer said why, as in this case, we need to know why the one star then it has a purpose.

See. I've one-starred this 'cos I don't like the car you drive, or drove, or you, or anything totally unrelated to your post.....

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:15:51 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]the major conferences (WVC, NAVC, IVECCS etc) and vet shows in the US are much larger in scope and better attended and funded than those in the UK. They tend to attract a very international group of lecturers whereas the wide array of American and Canadian specialists don't seem to attend the European conferences in very great numbers - so you're missing out on the wider array of specialists.[/quote]I assume that you've not been to BSAVA Congress then?!

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:43:18 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]though the breadth and quality of CPD (CE) in the States is streets ahead of what you get in the UK usually [/quote]

As far as I know exactly the same textbooks and journals are available in the UK and the US?

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Chris Milligan — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:32:28 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]As a consumer and a provider of CPD/CE in UK and US, I disagree with that claim. What makes you think the way you do?[/quote]

I can't speak for the CPD you consume and provide (I'm assuming orthopaedic - a field I have little direct engagement with), but - especially for non-specialists - the major conferences (WVC, NAVC, IVECCS etc) and vet shows in the US are much larger in scope and better attended and funded than those in the UK. They tend to attract a very international group of lecturers whereas the wide array of American and Canadian specialists don't seem to attend the European conferences in very great numbers - so you're missing out on the wider array of specialists.Smaller events, drug company plugs and practice management lectures tend to also be better funded, broader in scope and - surprisingly I found since moving here - less intolerant of discussion away from the sales subject matter (especially in the case of drug plugs). I think the attitude towards CPD from practising vets is also a big factor in how CPD is provided and offered - vets in North America expect to be involved in new things and the freer availability of money for such things (I like to think this is from reduced practice building overheads) makes this expectation a reality. It is very common for general practices to simply close for a week in parts of the US and Canada so the entire team (technicians, assistants, manager AND vets) can attend to keep up to date - something that is much less common for the average clinic and especially associate vets in the UK.

Also (though this is very dependent on Province/State) CPD is generally much more defined than simply fill x hours a years watching a drug company's latest webinar. In many cases you have to attend x hours of job-specific training - in my case emergency medicine - and you need to keep good records to prove that it is appropriate.

One might ask the same of course.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:13:18 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"] though the breadth and quality of CPD (CE) in the States is streets ahead of what you get in the UK usually [/quote]

As a consumer and a provider of CPD/CE in UK and US, I disagree with that claim. What makes you think the way you do?

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Chris Milligan — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:40:14 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]But significantly more enlightened than the Irish, or USA system for instance.[/quote]

definitely, though the breadth and quality of CPD (CE) in the States is streets ahead of what you get in the UK usually - and vets in practice are literally sent off to use their CPD allowances (which are hefty but need to be - the courses are very expensive) unlike in a lot of practices in Britain where it's promoted at interview and then suppressed in practice (not all of course)

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Beats — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:58:03 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]the system is flawed[/quote]

But significantly more enlightened than the Irish, or USA system for instance.

I'm in favour of less bureaucracy interfering with actual learning.

It's set to become more prescriptive and time-consuming however.

Apparently the profession has embraced the concept of a more prescriptive, mandatory, recording system:

With reference to the RCVS first stage pilot on their CPD requirement revamp proposals:

Overall 67% thought that the CPD model had been useful or very useful. 43 % said that it had encouraged them to undertake a wide range of CPD activities and 30 % had undertaken CPD activities that they might not have considered without the model.
57% thought that it was useful or very useful to plan their CPD.
80% thought that reflecting on their CPD/learning had been useful or very useful.
51% had found it easy or very easy to implement the CPD proposal while only 10% thought that it was difficult or very difficult. These numbers are very positive compared to last year’s consultation when only 15% thought it would be easy or very easy to implement the proposal and 61% thought it would be difficult or very difficult.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Chris Milligan — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:58:53 GMT

the system is flawed - yes zipping through 50 flea medication powepoints online or those god-awful "lunch and learn" drug company peddles you have to endure in general practice take up time engaged with things to do with the veterinary profession but clearly they are not the same value of post-grad qualification as doing an ultrasound course or presenting a paper - hard to say how you can factor this in but auditing people who come out with 500 hours CPD because they skipped through a load of webinars makes any meaningful audit of the system a waste of time.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Iain Richards — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:54:15 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Just thinking about the mega-hours some people have claimed for doing further education courses, I thought about how many hours I put in as clinical coach to 2 nurses. I claim for the training days but not for the hours I spend tutoring, training and completing their NPLs. I reckon that would add up to dozens if not hundreds of hours over a year.

[/quote]

As you can include preparing for a presentation, I don't see why not.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

J G Wray — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 09:47:37 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I didn't know that. Changed it now. Any one on council know why it's not automatic?[/quote]

It's the GDPR opt in thing

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 09:33:28 GMT

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Iain Richards — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 09:26:04 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]you have to ‘make it visible‘ to The RCVs within the portal. It’s not automatic.[/quote]

I didn't know that. Changed it now. Any one on council know why it's not automatic?

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:48:42 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]you have to ‘make it visible‘ to The RCVs within the portal. It’s not automatic.[/quote]So we still have some liberty even though Big Brother is watching us! They just requested I gave permission via email but not heard back yet, just granted permission anyway.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Emily Rainbow — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:08:01 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

What seems odd is that they've just contacted me to submit my CPD record for the past 3 years but its on the website for them to see any time they want. Is there some sort of data protection issue that they can't just log into it they have my RCVS number obviously?

[/quote]

you have to ‘make it visible‘ to The RCVs within the portal. It’s not automatic.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

J G Wray — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:11:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Given JGW's post got 5 stars and the subsequent three replies just one, and he seems to want to control 'his' thread, the finger of suspicion is pointed in one direction![/quote]

You're a wag; no, really you are. I haven't, as I've said many times before ever scored anyone else or used smiley face things or "liked" a posting. I don't see the point.

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:06:54 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Why don't the rcvs make the online cpd record mandatory as it's on the rcvs website and then instead of ticking a box you invite them to verify your cpd record? Or is that too much work for them?

[/quote]What seems odd is that they've just contacted me to submit my CPD record for the past 3 years but its on the website for them to see any time they want. Is there some sort of data protection issue that they can't just log into it they have my RCVS number obviously?

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]The one star gremlin is at work again Arlo! [/quote]

I know, and my schedule for developing the alternative has been hit by events of last few months. But I have an idea. I might see if the developers can write me a simple bit of code that will allow me to see whodunnit.

[/quote]Given JGW's post got 5 stars and the subsequent three replies just one, and he seems to want to control 'his' thread, the finger of suspicion is pointed in one direction!

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

J G Wray — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:41:04 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]The one star gremlin is at work again Arlo! [/quote]

[/quote]

Why worry about it?

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:10:47 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]The one star gremlin is at work again Arlo! [/quote]

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Sarah Keir — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 17:58:07 GMT

The one star gremlin is at work again Arlo! This is one of the reasons why I don't frequent VetSurgeon discussions much. If you want to one star someone then say why!

RE: RCVS CPD audit - what's the point?

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 17:18:40 GMT

Why don't the rcvs make the online cpd record mandatory as it's on the rcvs website and then instead of ticking a box you invite them to verify your cpd record? Or is that too much work for them?