Advice required

RE: Advice required

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:10:01 GMT

This thread is 4 months old!

Any update from the OP possible please? how did it work out?

RE: Advice required

David Catlow — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:41:49 GMT

The cost of getting HR wrong is potentially huge. Any business in the current world is potentially vulnerable to significant risk if they don't follow appropriate HR processes and advice.

it's certainly a challenge for small businesses that don't have well-informed management or the resources for dedicated HR people to help with HR. Moving from private practice to an organisation with over 800 staff has opened my eyes to the importance of having a strong HR infrastructure

RE: Advice required

Michael Coe — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:44:12 GMT

There are some good points raised here by everyone. It is not easy changing job roles and taking on a new challenge. However HR is a specialist area and has many different skill sets. Unfortunately many employers see HR or "People Management" as a chore and brush this off to a person who in their opinion "likes" people. It is a common mistake to make in small and expanding business.

Then as the person doing this job role of HR, it becomes overwhelming for you; as new skills have to be learnt on the job and quickly. HR is more than just interviewing and completing the payroll at the end of the month.It is a "legal" role covering basic employment laws and professional regulations.

You have done the correct things by taking a level 3 HR course. This will give you the basics. As for the partners they need to under go some form of Management Training as well. It really sounds as though they lack quality Leadership skills. This may also be why one of them is off with stress.

I know it is difficult to talk to some bosses about issues in the workplace. But as HR you do have a right to express your views in a systematic and professional manner. They do need to be told in a clam but constructive meeting, just you and them of all the issues etc.

The easy option is to run a way and do something completely different. However you sound as though you really want to work in a great practice. So get some books out on Practice Management and HR.

You do need to monitor your own stress levels and keep calm. HR is very stressful as you cannot please everyone all of the time. So Zoe don't jump ship just get focussed on your new role. HR is a great career choice and in the long term can make you happy.

RE: Advice required

Selena Carnell — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:01:06 GMT

Feel free to message me, i have moved in to management/hr from a Veterinary nursing role, gradually increasing my management time. I work 8-2 everyday (No other vet was interested in taking me on at those hours.) it certainly is a learning curve. Hardest part is having two very different partners who don't communicate well and totally different views on how we should do things.

RE: Advice required

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:42:58 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]My staff tell me what to do and by and large I do it![/quote]You and me too, I know my place in the pecking order.

But seriously, in the end the working conditions are what is best for them to work happily and the practice to run efficiently and I'm happy to fit around that, is no good me calling all the tunes if we're not all singing from the same song sheet. But in the end they know who is the boss, where the buck stops and how much they can get away with and are happy to accept it if I say 'we do this or that no arguments' because I've always been fair with them.

RE: Advice required

Bob Russell — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:16:27 GMT

My staff tell me what to do and by and large I do it!

Lots of bosses are quite happy to be bossed a bit and controlled with sympathy. Not many actually want to be the boss.

Sensible direction and discipline can work wonders and this does not have to be a boss. If there is going to be a meeting, book it and give notice if all partners are not there!

RE: Advice required

An On MRCVS — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 16:13:06 GMT

Letter emailed to all bosses on Friday. Email back from one- he completely agrees!! :O I thought he was the one that would do, but still- a victory! I gave them a time target of the end of October to discuss everything I had mentioned and come back to me with a plan, so we'll wait and see..

Thanks everyone for their input and I'll let you know how I get on.

RE: Advice required

Nick Taylor — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:47:37 GMT

Yours is not an uncommon dilemma. The way I see it you have two options and only you know how to manage them:

1. Something has to change and the simplest is to leave. There is a lot to be said for failing fast and cutting losses. It is painful in the short run but it will work out in the long run.

2. You need to learn to manage upwards. They will respect you for it and it is your chance to increase your responsibility and importance. You need to organise and agree a monthly meeting. You need to make it clear this is a non negotiable for you. At that meeting you need to set the agenda and take your partners through it allowing them to ask any questions they may have. Make sure you've pre thought any possible questions and have the answers. Now you will receive regular feedback and be in a position to keep expanding your responsibility. If they are as blasé as you say before long you will be running the show, expanding your team and making their jobs/life a whole lot easier. That means more pay for you and less stress for all parties.

If they can not even stick to a simple monthly meeting over the next three months then they have made your decision for you.

Best of luck

RE: Advice required

An On MRCVS — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:29:39 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Can you hang on in there until Jan then come to SPVS/VPMA and talk to any number of folk that will have been there/done that? Good luck.

[/quote]

I'd love to, but I've used my training budget... I am going to a HR conference in November, so hoping I can chat to folks there. Although the veterinary world is obviously very much different. Thanks though.

RE: Advice required

Iain Richards — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:34:55 GMT

Can you hang on in there until Jan then come to SPVS/VPMA and talk to any number of folk that will have been there/done that? Good luck.

RE: Advice required

Kate Richardson — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:31:53 GMT

Have a look at https://www.vetdynamics.co.uk

might be something for them to consider

Alan Robinson

RE: Advice required

An On MRCVS — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:05:57 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]There is an old business adage: go to the bosses with solutions, not problems. I'm sure they are aware of problems but will have worries of their own, including financial concerns, so factor that into your presentation. [/quote]

Oh yes, I hate it when people come to be with problems but no solutions, so I'm definitely trying to come up with fixes.

And agree re epidemic, and I like the idea about locums. It's very true.

Thanks

RE: Advice required

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:45:01 GMT

I have seen stress become a kind of epidemic in a practice, to the point where it is endemic, because people start to wind each other up, someone goes off sick, the remaining ones have an increased workload, moan even more and so the spiral goes on as no one gets properly rested. Depressed/stressed staff aren't able to buzz themselves up and be fun to work with and don't function well.

Management of change is a huge, difficult subject, it covers a whole section of an MBA course, so it's not surprising that you feel out of your depth. There may be one or two key people who need to go, which will change the whole ethos of the place. Good locums are great in these circumstances, as they (should) come without any baggage or preconceived ideas, ready to do a good days work without gossip.

There is an old business adage: go to the bosses with solutions, not problems. I'm sure they are aware of problems but will have worries of their own, including financial concerns, so factor that into your presentation.

BTW the person having rages needs help of some sort...go easy on them, but unless you are great friends, suggest someone else helps...

RE: Advice required

bob lehner — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:52:23 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Although they want the business to do well and I'm sure care for the happiness of the employees, it often doesn't feel like it.. fobbing off their on call/work onto other vets, one being particularly horrid for the nurses to work with (has childish rages sometimes), disappearing to go home etc[/quote][quote user="An On MRCVS"]I am so stressed.[/quote]

I think you need to take the bull by the horns and have a calm, but serious talk with all the partners together, outlining your concerns and unhappiness with the current situation.

If you do nothing things will just muddle along as they are and nothing will ever change. It seems to me the bosses need a wake-up call - at the end of the day it's their business and if you leave they will be in even greater trouble.

You might even find that they appreciate having the facts laid before them and it might shock them into doing something positive.

If it doesn't, then vote with your feet and let them sort themselves out ...!

RE: Advice required

An On MRCVS — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:20:17 GMT

Thanks again all :)

I didn't take the job to 'appease' the Partners- more myself really. I went as far as pushing my loyalty boundaries by having an interview and being offered a job at the rival practice in town (vet nursing).. I decided that as well as feeling awful, it would most likely have been a 'jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire' situation. It was only at this critical point that when I chatted about it one of the Partners that I was ushered into the new role.

I hate the role as it is currently...(possibly now and always..) But lack of communication, to the point of no acknowledgement sometimes with the Partners- is my biggest bug bear. I'm too empathetic for my own good- they are obviously very busy being busy vets and running a business so I've just stopped communicating with them, so we are now as bad as each other (obviously I communicate important things that they need to know at the time "so and so that was off with stress has now handed her notice in, I'm organising this in response" etc). But I could be doing anything (such as writing on internet forums..) and they would have no idea. Which is bad on both our parts.

I have considered what job I would prefer and it would always be nursing (I'm good at it, love animals and biology and client care), although I did enjoy leading the team and fixing any issues/problems, which is where I'd hoped the HR would take me I suppose. But I just couldn't deal with the hours/on call as they were and it wasn't an accepted option to change these. Which is frustrating as I know a Head nurse in a similar practice that does exactly what I'd want-regular hours, no lates/on call (impossible right? Her boss recognises her role of responsibility and stress, so acknowledges this with good hours!) and one of my nurses has come back to a cushy set up post pregnancy (I am aware of the possibility of discrimination here -thanks HR course- but not going down that road!). I now do a 8.30-5 Monday-Friday, so as soon as I'm out of work, I'm happy.

The Partner suffering from stress phoned me to set me a couple of tasks (which I grabbed with both hands!) and also asked how I was. He caught on to my attempt of a chirpy "mostly ok", to which after attempting to fob him off (I don't want him more stressed!) I admitted that I was writing down some thoughts. He asked to see it, I have fobbed him off for now with the fact that it's not finished and I'm hoping I can delay it until more Partners around to support him and me.

Also worth noting. I'm really happy outside of work to the point that I couldn't leave my little town for another job, which does hinder my ship jumping. Not enough lifeboats :/

I will keep you updated. Thanks again, you've all been really helpful and some interesting thoughts. Perhaps I should show the Partners the thread? Ooo no, probably not. eek.

RE: Advice required

Clive Ansell — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:38:16 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Rather than trying to appease others...[/quote]

I don't think appeasement has been suggested, just a more constructive move than simply "jump ship". Some people enjoy the challenge of working to bring a struggling practice around, and "anon's" loyalty is heartening.

[/quote]

I had rather formed the impression that Anon had accepted the role of HR in order, partly at least, to appease or placate the partners'.

She says she has been in the role for 6 months, hates it and is stressed. Maybe time to reevaluate, time to ask herself what she wants and where she wants to go. She may enjoy the challenge, I don't know, but without the backing of partners and management it may be akin to rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

As a very last resort, maybe time to bail? there are many excellent practices out there looking for good RVN's that seem thin on the ground at the moment.

RE: Advice required

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:51:21 GMT

One risk of jumping ship is "out of the frying pan, into the fire". The "grass may not be greener the other side of the fence"!!

If you are considering moving practice the you are in quite a strong position to try to change the present practice as worst case, you hand in your notice.

RE: Advice required

Niall Taylor — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:21:49 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Rather than trying to appease others...[/quote]

Niall

RE: Advice required

Clive Ansell — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:18:33 GMT

Rather than trying to appease others, have you asked yourself, what you like best? what gives you the most satisfaction and fulfillment? and what you want to do; be a hands on RVN, or work in management or HR?

RE: Advice required

Niall Taylor — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:17:03 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I'm not very good at being bold enough to ask re a pay rise[/quote]

It will help to lay out all you have done and are doing for the practice and gently but firmly point out your loyalty to the practice and how much you want it to succeed and what you are doing to help, and any areas you have key responsibilities; i.e. how much they need you. The last thing they will (or at least should) want is to have to replace and train up someone to take your place at a time like this.

I'm not saying they'll go for it, they may have got to the stage where thay are no longer able to see the wood for the trees, they may even resent your 'interference'. But the ball is in your court; you're trying to help them run their business properly and if they are too daft to appreciate that then at least you can say you've done everything you can before taking another direction (e.g. buying the practice off them )

Keep us posted,

Niall

RE: Advice required

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 14:59:18 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I'm not very good at being bold enough to ask re a pay rise and I actually agreed to a pay cut for this job... [/quote]Me thinks they are taking advantage of your loyalty and good nature. Time to kick ass girl!

RE: Advice required

An On MRCVS — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 14:40:10 GMT

Thanks everyone. It's really interesting to hear different views. I'm a very loyal person in general and so I feel like I need to give them all the information before I consider jumping ship. And I really don't want it sink :( And thanks for that Niall Taylor, very constructive. I'm not very good at being bold enough to ask re a pay rise and I actually agreed to a pay cut for this job... I think they're looking at salaries at the moment so maybe my letter is timely...

RE: Advice required

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:35 GMT

I agree they don't change their spots but they can learn from mistakes.

RE: Advice required

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:52:22 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

Thank you everyone. I think I'm going to write it all down- my concerns, my stresses and email it to the bosses... perhaps not the one off with stress.. or the ones on holiday.. *sigh*

[/quote]I think you're wasting your time. Leopards don't change their spots.

RE: Advice required

Niall Taylor — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:27:00 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Jump ship Zoe![/quote]

Well, if I could offer a more constructive suggestion why don't you speak to the partners and tell them of your concerns. You clearly like the practice, you must do if you've stayed on through all this and you are trying to keep the ship afloat without the captains present. If you can come up with a rough plan for what might be needed and make them understand that you appreciate there may be some tough decisions to make, it will cost money if they're going to get the serious help they need but they need to bite the bullet (and probably raise some prices, pronto) and do something about it, with your assistance. If they don't then short-term you will feel you have no choice but to leave for your own sake (and you sound like a pretty key player to me) and medium/long term their practice is going to go down the tubes.

TLDR: They need to give serious consideration to taking a cut in drawings and putting up prices in order to maintain the practice as a going concern.

Oh, and put in for a pay rise, pronto. Your stress levels will improve once you feel more appreciated and more listened to.

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]You can pick the hours that suit, your stress levels will drop...[/quote] The one will by no means be certain to follow the other.

Niall