Breeding for docility

RE: Breeding for docility

Bob Russell — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:11:04 GMT

Sadly there really is no reliable answer.

Two so called nanny breeds are the Boxer and Staffie. Get a good one and they will make the perfect pet. Sadly there are so many other genetic bits to the Staffie that you may not be getting what you think you are getting.

Our GSD is the softest dog in the world. We take him to the local school to meet the Years 1's. He will lie there and lift a front leg so they can listen to his heart (we have a double earpiece stethoscope). They can groom him, clean his teeth and do pretty much anything they like. Biggest risk is he is big and occasionally clumsy so might just knock them down.

Our staffie would bounce like a lunatic with older, confident kids but stand still and allow toddlers to hold herm. Screwing up her face with discomfort when they grabbed her skin too tight. Never a murmur of dissent though.

RE: Breeding for docility

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:26:03 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I hesitate to say this and I hope it never leaks out, but pugs are up there as truly docile. [/quote]

I've known some horrific pugs in my time. They go blue as soon as they walk into the building.

RE: Breeding for docility

Utlendigur — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 08:33:34 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I hesitate to say this and I hope it never leaks out, but pugs are up there as truly docile. [/quote]

Is it true docility though or just hypoxia? - hard to do much in the way of aggression if you can barely get enough air in for the basics of staying alive

RE: Breeding for docility

Iain Richards — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 21:57:19 GMT

I hesitate to say this and I hope it never leaks out, but pugs are up there as truly docile.

Michael, as most dog owners want a "companion" docility has to be way up the list. You could be right with the heritability aspect though.

RE: Breeding for docility

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:40:53 GMT

From a breeding point of view the first two things we need to know is

1. is 'docility' a desirable trait

2. what's its heritability

I suspect in many dogs its not actually desirable, some dogs need some get up and go to fulfil their purpose in life. The third point I'm guessing is what is meant by docility? Not actually biting people? Sitting like a rock to have its nails clipped? Safe around children? Quiet temperament?

I trust my 2 dogs but the 3 year old cocker spaniel is mad (but doesn't bite), the Patterdale terrier has her grumpy moments and is not a good patient, but has only ever bitten me..... Neither would I describe as docile, and neither would I want to be. I want dogs with personality.

RE: Breeding for docility

Lindsey Edwards — Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:20:39 GMT

I always side step this question from owners and remind them that all dogs have individual personalities just as people do - coming from a particular family/country/creed etc is no guarantee of a persons manners, even growing up in the same household can see dramatic differences in personality!

I have had all breeds attempt to bite - including CKCS, retrievers, labs, spinone etc; have had less threats from rottis and GSDs, maybe because we tend to approach them differently or because owners tend to train them differently? Every dog in every situation needs to be assessed differently and pain and medical conditions can have an impact also

RE: Breeding for docility

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:18:46 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Mind you, and let's face it, based on reason, we should all drive Skodas..[/quote]I do and very much based on reason!

When a client of mine was looking for a dog with a very good temperament for their handicapped son, having had a bad experience with some mainstream breed previously, they were advised to get an Italian Spinone, known for their docile and gentle nature. Not your everyday breed admittedly. Their's is the only one I've seen so can't really compare but it was pretty laid back.

RE: Breeding for docility

Lou Dawson — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 17:31:30 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I had beagles for many years (see profile pic!), and mine were totally soft, if completely and maddeningly untrainable . I always used to say I chose beagles for the same reason that labs used them- very few genetic defects and good natured.[/quote]

My parents had beagles when I was growing up, and have always had one until quite recently. We can spend hours reminiscing over the various mishaps and incidents that occurred over the years. My mother always said she wished she had kept a diary, as it would make a hilarious book. I see why so many are in rescue though, they are not for the faint-hearted, although I will always have a soft spot for them. After spending some time with my own little mongrel dog they decided not to get another beagle and are now amazed at how enjoyable and easy life is with a dog that comes back when called and is not constantly opening the fridge...

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Now, however, they have become popular again. Now I'm seeing lots of nervy beagles-that-don't-always-look-like-beagles with atopy . I really do think that now everyone and anyone is breeding dogs as soon as a breed gets popular we start seeing behaviour and skin issues![/quote]

Lots of these in the rescue centres :(

Slightly off topic sorry!

RE: Breeding for docility

Sarah Keir — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 17:07:47 GMT

Cavaliers are always happy - apparently something to do with too much dopamine!

RE: Breeding for docility

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:17:59 GMT

Many giant breeds are placid - Newfoundland, St Bernard, Irish Wolfhound, Deerhound, sighthounds in general. Some Great Danes can be iffy though. Also never met a nasty pug - probably concentrating too much on breathing to be able to bite you!

RE: Breeding for docility

Iain Richards — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:07:31 GMT

Male golden retrievers were at one point the most unpleasant, untrustworthy dogs to deal with. All based on popularity. AI in dogs anyone?

RE: Breeding for docility

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 14:09:26 GMT

Fortunately flavour of the month [cf Crufts winner] tend to die out solely because of temperament.

Mind you, and let's face it, based on reason, we should all drive Skodas..... fat chance!

RE: Breeding for docility

Julie Innes — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 14:05:10 GMT

I had beagles for many years (see profile pic!), and mine were totally soft, if completely and maddeningly untrainable . I always used to say I chose beagles for the same reason that labs used them- very few genetic defects and good natured.

Now, however, they have become popular again. Now I'm seeing lots of nervy beagles-that-don't-always-look-like-beagles with atopy . I really do think that now everyone and anyone is breeding dogs as soon as a breed gets popular we start seeing behaviour and skin issues!

Interestingly, I heard a study years ago that was investigating a sudden emergence of aggressive male golden retrievers, and which traced many of them back to one sire, who had a perfect hip score.

for me personally, I tend to trust most SBTs, Border terriers and labs (sometimes erroneously!) I have an innate distrust of Rottweilers (bite with no apparent warning!) and GSDs (often highly strung and hysterical!) Complete generalisation, and I know you have to judge each individual, but those are my immediate prejudices.

I really think we should be breeding for temperament, but unfortunately all the people breeding care about are looks

RE: Breeding for docility

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:43:08 GMT

[quote user="Lou Dawson"]Many beagles are pretty stoic, or at least easy won over with a biscuit or two[/quote]

My old beagle was the softest thing in the world. We rehomed in from a family who had young kids so he used to get so excited when he saw children out on a walk and would always ask for a cuddle.

Beagles, however, are cheeky little things and their recall isn't the best!

RE: Breeding for docility

Lou Dawson — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:36:16 GMT

Many beagles are pretty stoic, or at least easy won over with a biscuit or two, although there are always exceptions. Stems from their use in laboratory testing I think, they have to be pretty good natured for the techs to handle etc.