Sick pay and income protection

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Claudia Niehoegen — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 11:31:06 GMT

We have always paid 4 weeks normal pay, then SSP. After 2 years or so we started NOT paying for the first 3 days. This cut down enormously on the odd sick days, some genuine, some less so. After a day off for an injured knee an employee should at least limp a bit the next day. In one case the change to SSP evoked a miraculous recovery of a sore shoulder.

We have never employed veterinary surgeons who would obviously be a lot more expensive . Also we are Lucky with our nurses that they would rather work than sit at home with their IBD and lamenesses.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Julie Innes — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:09:46 GMT

I pay employee for first 2 weeks, then SSP- given that the government doesn't refund SSP at all, and that I have to pay a locum to cover , it is pretty much all I can afford as a small business! I had one employee off sick for 2 months and it cost me a fortune! Employees are often under the misapprehension that the employer "gets it back"- we really don't ! (unlike maternity pay, where at least it gets offset against our NI contributions)

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Catherine Williams — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 18:41:44 GMT

It's definitely worth thinking about carefully. Fell off a horse 2mths back (horse went down on his knees, suddenly nothing in front of me so I landed on my shoulder), the consequence was a dislocated collar bone that had me off work for 8wks & now I am back at work but having to be careful what I can do as I still can't use my right arm properly (and my physio would rather I was doing less than I am) Fortunately my employers are fairly generous with their sick pay but it's still been a tight month... and I don't have a mortgage to pay at the moment. A plan is well worthwhile as the unpredictable happens and the simple things can have long reaching consequences (wish I'd broken the collar bone, would have hurt more but apparently would have healed much more rapidly)

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:57:51 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]That's what we do. Contract says SSP but will generally pay more depending on the circumstances and the individual. Never had anyone take the piss - yet.[/quote]My current employees have generous sick pay in their contracts and they do not take advantage but it has made me wonder if I stopped this as I probably will with any new employees, as SSP does not become payable until after 5 days, if you stick rigidly to your SSP only policy, do they get nothing for the first 5 days?

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:09:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]At the last practice management CPD I went to it was recommended not to give employees set sick pay but to reward on merit.[/quote]

That's what we do. Contract says SSP but will generally pay more depending on the circumstances and the individual. Never had anyone take the piss - yet.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Rob Loxley — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 18:04:53 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]is it normal for vets no have no sick pay[/quote] Not unusual. We have cut sick pay (above SSP) from new starters after the provervial had been taken one time too many

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I'm just wondering if anyone has experience in which is the best route for this - via the mortgage provider, or via Lloyd and whyte, or a different financial advisor[/quote]

I would recommend not paying commission to any of these and go for a discount broker - I used Cavendish direct (https://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/life/income-protection/) and have a policy with LV.

Make sure you go for own-occupation cover, and understand deferment periods, variable or indexed premiums, what % of salary is covered etc

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:11:59 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Martin, how much have you paid out in total on these policies?[/quote]Sh*tloads!! I have stopped them all now as I would just retire if there was little prospect of returning to work after a month and my insurance is the value of the practice. The other option was critical illness insurance but I never took that out as I decided with my family history and my own good health and fitness meant I was unlikely to suffer anything critical then it was not worth it.

In hindsight of course I've wasted a lot of money on PHI premiums as I never had a day off for illness in my life but its a personal decision like any non-essential insurance policy.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Lindsey Edwards — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 19:34:02 GMT

As a self-employed, recently new grad I had income cover from day 1 of injury and structured to pay until retirement if required. As time and age moves on the premiums crept up and was advised to split policy across 2 companies - day one of injury/illness to three months and 3months +; as covering different aspects one would follow directly from other if ever required, total premium is equal or less than full plan. Am very glad I have same event though I am yet to need it I know I can pay the bills and/or a locum if really required

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Wren — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:47:21 GMT

[quote user="Noweia"]

Wren who are you with? I presume yours covers horsey related things?

[/quote]

Hi, to be boringly specific I need mine to cover team-chasing (at the top level) and hunt races (Melton Hunt Ride and similar). Most policies won't cover racing in any shape or form, but we managed to find one that would, mostly due to having a broker who knew and could argue the differences between that and, say, pointing.

I used Miles Seston (an ex-jockey) at Strathon Park Financial, who was excellent. I also found that a lot of policies would cover eg. eventing, but when you read the fine print it was only 'up to BE Novice' or similar, so you really need to check policies for the specifics. This is probably true of most high risk sports!

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:47:13 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]On the income protection, there are two basic ways of approaching this: a long term income protection plan which will pay out until projected retirement age if you suffer long term illness/disability which tend to have a delayed starting date, typically 3 months, to keep the premiums under control and those with a fixed term of 12 months which can start a lot sooner as the premium isn't as high, typically one week to a month. I had both to cover several eventualities until the former was cancelled once I reached 60 but I continued to use the latter as Locum Insurance in case I was off and had to erm....pay a locum.[/quote]

Martin, how much have you paid out in total on these policies?

It's a genuine question as I have always taken the view that they are a waste of money, driven by insurance companies, especially in regards the won't pay for 3 months, not after 12 and there is bound to be all sorts of get outs. As professional folk it's recognised that we take care of ourselves, are less likely to smoke and eat better, so we are in the lower risk category. Added to this most vets will have the ability to start a more sedimentary career if an illness strikes.

Yes get covered for life insurance for your mortgage as your provider will insist and pension contributions will provide an income for your family (I'm worth more dead than alive )

Neil

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Anthony Todd — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:41:00 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]At the last practice management CPD I went to it was recommended not to give employees set sick pay but to reward on merit.[/quote]

We paid "on merit" ie more than the average, but no sick pay unless they tuned up and we sent them home.

Amazingly it reduced Monday morning gastro to nearly nil, so that someone was there at 9am to open up.....

Almost stopped a "friend" or "partner" ringing at 9.30 or later to advise us of this sudden illness.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Noweia — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:04:14 GMT

Wren who are you with? I presume yours covers horsey related things?

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:33:58 GMT

At the last practice management CPD I went to it was recommended not to give employees set sick pay but to reward on merit. This way one can avoid having to pay malingerers anything other than SSP and have the discretion to give loyal workers as much as one wants. While on the face of things this seems all jolly for us employers I can see such conditions may not be attractive to prospective employees. This may be something you would like to discuss with your employer - it may give you some idea how much he/she values you!

On the income protection, there are two basic ways of approaching this: a long term income protection plan which will pay out until projected retirement age if you suffer long term illness/disability which tend to have a delayed starting date, typically 3 months, to keep the premiums under control and those with a fixed term of 12 months which can start a lot sooner as the premium isn't as high, typically one week to a month. I had both to cover several eventualities until the former was cancelled once I reached 60 but I continued to use the latter as Locum Insurance in case I was off and had to erm....pay a locum. Obviously these could be applied to an employee as much as a employer.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:22:31 GMT

I got mine through Lloyd and White, and in fact we're having a review with them on Thursday to check our policies are still suitable. I play rugby, so also have the option of rather than income protection, sports insurance which pays out a lump sum per injury.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Wren — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:45:25 GMT

Just beware hobbies. We get (I think) 6 weeks sick pay unless it is incurred during a hobby/sport, when it defaults to SSP only. There is no way that I could pay my mortgage on SSP, let alone live, so I have insurance for that. However I have had to go through a specialist broker to get my specific hobbies included. Having dealt with veterinary insurance companies for many years I know there is no good not being covered for exactly the right thing!

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 00:09:38 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]

Suspect that was 'mock shock' to get you to buy financial products.

Aren't they really some form of PPI...

[/quote]

There was nothing wrong with PPI in itself. The scandal was in the way it was sold, or rather mis-sold.

Think about your savings (if any), think about how you'd manage if you were off sick for more than, say, a month; and unless you have substantial private means (like Fanny Hill) or a rich benevolent uncle (as in Mr. Pickwick), get that insurance.

Yes I wondered about the value too, until the day I needed it......

RE: Sick pay and income protection

An On MRCVS — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:20:21 GMT

Thank you everyone :)

It was my understanding that statutory sick pay, when it kicks in, is about £80/90 a week and if there is no extra "sick pay" provided by the employer then £90 a week is all I would get... Which is significantly lower than my normal pay...

Which is the main reason the mortgage provider suggested income protection, which does make sense - although I will definitely look into other providers for this!

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:02:58 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Statutory sick pay IS sick pay (the clue is in the name ). I guess some companies may top up the amount you get but the basic SSP sees you getting 75% of your normal pay from your employer who is then able to claim some or all of it back from the government.[/quote]

Not strictly true....SSP only kicks in after 3 days and the government only pays about £80 or so a week. Thus the employer contribution is sizeable for a vet.

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Niall Taylor — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 21:43:37 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]Suspect that was 'mock shock' to get you to buy financial products.[/quote]

Spot on - don't fall for it and get some decent independent advice

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] is it normal for vets no have no sick pay?[/quote]

Statutory sick pay IS sick pay (the clue is in the name ). I guess some companies may top up the amount you get but the basic SSP sees you getting 75% of your normal pay from your employer who is then able to claim some or all of it back from the government.

I have always found Dickinson's to give very good, veterinary-specific financial advice, and they're independent.

Good luck with the mortgage - a very confusing time!

Niall

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Jill Butterworth — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 21:32:23 GMT

Suspect that was 'mock shock' to get you to buy financial products.

Aren't they really some form of PPI...

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 17:43:30 GMT

My (independent) employers always paid sick pay (usually 2 weeks), when I was an employer I paid 3 weeks sick pay, and my new employer (CVS) pays 2 weeks sick pay. If I'm honest, I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't! But, as you say, it is a small business so the choice is down to the employer.

I can't suggest any particular income protection as it has been so long since I got mine... but do make sure you get independent financial advice and that the cover is profession-specific. I also would have thought that cover that kicks in immediately might be difficult/very expensive.. I think 3 months delay is the norm. (The advice was always to have 3 months worth of finances in savings if possible.)

RE: Sick pay and income protection

Pollyanna — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 17:19:55 GMT

I don't think I've ever had anything beyond standard sick, but for income protection I can recommend Cirencester Friendly (originally recommended by the Lloyd and Whyte advisor). They've paid out when I needed it, it's veterinary profession specific and can start from day one if needed. They've also allowed me to take a career break without repercussions on my level of cover. As a Friendly society I believe I get some payout at retirement as well.