Any Advice?

RE: Any Advice?

George Cooper — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:08:25 GMT

Good stuff. Here’s to fulfilment in all its forms. Thank you for updating us, for despite appearances (!!) we do all care what happens. Well done.

RE: Any Advice?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:24:38 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Onwards and upwards helping to build up the new practice and fingers crossed all works out this time. [/quote]Well done and best of luck in your new practice.

RE: Any Advice?

An On MRCVS — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:16:27 GMT

Hi all,

Just wanted to update you all. One week left in current job which has been a bit awkward ( and soul destroying) still working there, especially seeing it getting busier. I now have a new job starting next month, similar hours to this one and seems like a nice practice, recently taken over and at the moment just the one vet.

Thank you all for your suggestions, always good to look at things from a different angle. It was just a bit horrid and really felt like I had had the carpet pulled from under my feet.

Onwards and upwards helping to build up the new practice and fingers crossed all works out this time.

RE: Any Advice?

Tedders — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:29:02 GMT

Hi Anon, not been on the forum for a while so only just seen this and you will by now of course be looking onwards and upwards and totally over your initial entirely understandable feelings of disappointment and rejection which I fully sympathised with. I just thought I would make the suggestion that if childcare pick ups are the sticking point then would you consider getting an au pair to help with this so that you could be more "useful" to a practice if you don't have to down tools at say 5.45pm? We had an au pair for a couple of years when we had 3 under 5/6 which enabled my husband to cope with the post school/nursery and bedtime chaos. I hardly dared to add up what I was actually taking home when 2 sets of nursery fees (for the 2 days I worked), after school and breakfast club for one plus the au pair was all deducted but it did make life easier and enabled me to commit to staying until the end of the working day. Just a thought and it may not be a suitable solution for you. You have my utmost admiration for keeping the show on the road with your husband away, any practice will be very fortunate to have you and I hope you find a great job where you can start forming long term relationships with staff and clients again soon.

RE: Any Advice?

Julie Innes — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:57:41 GMT

Hi OP, I can totally sympathise having been a vet and a forces wife for 15 years. It's hard, no doubt about it. I am lucky that we moved next door to my dad (which comes with its own issues!) And my children are getting older (13, 12 and 9) so it's getting easier. But at one point I had 3 under 5, hus band in the gulf and dad still working at that point.

It Gets easier. I ended up starting my own practice near the kids school. Sounds a bit drastic, but took a bit of the stress out of those "child is sick" phone calls. Downside is the poor kids spend a fair bit of time at the surgery, but upside is they have realised they dont want to be vets

Last couple of years have been hard as he has been away a LOT, I'm getting to the conversation about when is he leaving...But it's his career.

Keep approaching logical practices. I am always looking for people to cover mat leave/ part time hours. It changes suddenly at times and those cvs I have on file get pulled up. I would be grateful for any hours someone could work at times! (You're not in Scotland are you.?) Something will come up, it will! There is a real shortage of good vets, someone will snap you up!

RE: Any Advice?

David Mills — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:39:06 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Thank you all, some very helpful comments, I am not at all bothered people have asked the depression question.[/quote]

You're not depressed despite what people say. It's an in vogue way for feeling a little bit F-ing s**t, which happens. Depression is a complete lack of energy for life, an overwhelming crushing sadness where nothing is happy. Yes, there may be grades of it, but reading your posts you aren't. Yes, pissed off, a bit hurt, disappointed, maybe a bit of an ego blow. It'll pass. Know your worth. Time is an absolutely wonderful thing. You'll be fine.

As said by others, go hunting for locum work directly, letters are depressing and a waste of time. You'll be amazed how many practices need a 1-2 day a week but don't want to go through the hassle of advertising and interviewing.

RE: Any Advice?

Julie Innes — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 21:24:36 GMT

Last couple of years have been hard as he has been away a LOT, I'm getting to the conversation about when is he leaving...But it's his career.

RE: Any Advice?

An On MRCVS — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 21:03:17 GMT

Thank you all, some very helpful comments, I am not at all bothered people have asked the depression question. That day did completely knock the wind out of my sails, and yes if I had continued to feel like that then help would have been warranted. I do respect the situation the practice are in, and feel very supported by the other staff whodo not want me to go. Typically today was the busiest yet so you never know I might yet be saved! Have a week off, after the weekend so will just have a week doing other things and start approaching the local practices when back.

RE: Any Advice?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:22:36 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]i'd say that if a Boss is gonna take offence at using initiative, then you don't wanna be there at all!! [/quote]Totally agree, I've employed nurses who were sacked by previous vets because they used their initiative which was interpreted as being obstructive or critical and they've turned into some of the best nurses I've had. I want strong characters working for me who are critical of things they don't agree with. I suspect some vets are bullies and control freaks who don't like irreverence or criticism, I welcome it.

I think we've hijacked this thread enough now.

RE: Any Advice?

George Cooper — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:11:48 GMT

Martin - by only writing and not calling in you can NEVER make an impression. To NOT call in reduces your potential - "just in case you offend" - and i'd say that if a Boss is gonna take offence at using initiative, then you don't wanna be there at all!! (and more agreement [!!] I too always responded to letters, from VS or VN - and would on occasion invite them for a coffee and a natter. One or two have remained lifelong friends as a result.)

RE: Any Advice?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:58:51 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]I'm in support of Martin here, and here's why. When one suspects anyone, at any time, to be possibly suffering from being "down", "depressed", or even harbouring suicidal thoughts, it is imperative that one asks the question directly "Are you feeling .......?" By ASKING you are prodding for an answer, and the received wisdom is that if someone is OK they won't mind the question, and if they are in that frame of mind, your question could well provide the path to a solution. [/quote]Thank you George at least someone can see why I answered as I did. I could see a cry for help as much as advice.

[quote user="George Cooper"]my suggestion would be NOT to WRITE, but to actually go and knock on reception counters and request that you have a chat with one of the bosses. Letters are far too easily consigned to the big yawning tin beast under the desk, and can never give an inkling of the bright cheerful personable client friendly lovely lady with enthusiasm that you undoubtedly are. [/quote]There is a danger of being seen as too pushy. I had an email recently from a newly qualified Czech vet asking if we had any vacancies which I accidentally deleted (I normally answer them all even if its just to say no and wish them luck, its only polite when someone has got the initiative to do it). 2 days later she walked into the waiting room complaining I hadn't answered her email (never had that before but she did live very close by). Having met her and gained an idea of her personality I said I'd keep her details on file and consider her as a locum. If she hadn't walked in I would never even have considered that but it could easily have backfired the other way.

RE: Any Advice?

George Cooper — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:28:54 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Sometimes it needs someone to grasp the nettle rather than treading on eggshells and point out to someone that they may be in denial. I don't see how this earns me one star for my first response. As said, the OP can consider this and dismiss this as b*ll*cks if she wants but it irritates me when other posters criticise me when I'm trying to helpful and not judgmental which you and others are of me!

[/quote]

I'm in support of Martin here, and here's why. When one suspects anyone, at any time, to be possibly suffering from being "down", "depressed", or even harbouring suicidal thoughts, it is imperative that one asks the question directly "Are you feeling .......?" By ASKING you are prodding for an answer, and the received wisdom is that if someone is OK they won't mind the question, and if they are in that frame of mind, your question could well provide the path to a solution. I picked this up years ago when doing some stuff with Samaritans and helping arrange the distribution of a Samaritan's Rural Outreach video through veterinary wholesalers to every practice in UK. That video highlighted the fact that the Samaritans will react to a third party referral, something that is still not widely understood, whereby if someone is concerned about a work colleague, but baulks at the thought of asking directly, then an approach to Samaritans WILL result in them making the direct contact with the person concerned.

Now back to the OP. My first - and very positive - response to your post was that you are a veterinary surgeon who has such a lot to offer to a practice. Your comments highlighted that in each practice you got on with colleagues, enjoyed working with them, enjoyed clients and felt really content when you are working in the vast majority of your work-places. Reflect on that and keep it at the front of that old brain of yours - YOU have plenty to offer.

And to follow on things that a couple have suggested, my suggestion would be NOT to WRITE, but to actually go and knock on reception counters and request that you have a chat with one of the bosses. Letters are far too easily consigned to the big yawning tin beast under the desk, and can never give an inkling of the bright cheerful personable client friendly lovely lady with enthusiasm that you undoubtedly are. (Anecdote Alert *** - i have experience of both situations despite the length of the teeth I have left, and the greyness of my flowing locks. I had need of some part-time work to bring in a small steady income whilst other matters in life got seen to and wrote to an awful lot of practices within an hour's drive. Three responses!! The other 40-odd will never know what a charismatic, handsome, chatty chap that clients [especially women of a certain persuasion] really loved they missed!! I did end up doing PT for one lovely rural practice. At another time I thought I'd like to do regular/irregular Saturday morning stuff (always enjoyed the pressure-less Saturday clientele) so I popped into one of the local establishments and had a chat with the gaffer, who - bright fella that he was - instantly recognised the absolute benefits they would receive by having, even part time, this Cooper fella on a Saturday, and i started immediately!!)

Back (again) to the OP.....and I took note of the fact that you can actually empathise with their rationale, despite feeling so let down by circumstances. That said, each and every one of us lives a life on the cusp of being "found out", so it is natural that, at the back of your mind you might be questioning their real reasons for not continuing. You present a practice with both an opportunity AND a problem - an opportunity to cover odd times, to be more economical as a pert-timer (something i personally feel is a huge benefit having run a practice purely with PT workers), to commit even more because you are PT; and a problem, because your own necessity to cover child-care and pick-ups, to have another important pull on your time and the inflexibility that that can bring. Neither of these should be insurmountable provided always that the dialogue between both parties is as robust and meaningful as it should be.

Final thought would be to write down exactly what YOU are needing from whatever you are looking for. This may sound banal, but by scraping the barrel of reflection you will have a clearer idea of how to proceed. Being assertive is important as only by obtaining what suits your needs will you be able to commit fully to your job. And being assertive does not mean being obstrructive, though the concept of assertiveness would actually take a complete thread to cover properly. I'm including the dreaded work-life balance in all this too.

Keep on. Keep in touch. Your little family needs a Mum that is a bluddy GOOD Mum (not necessarily a good vet). The old man needs a wife who is coping etc etc - and if posting on here helps you in any way, then keep posting, cos in amongst the bollox will come one or two giant pearls of... ... ...!!

RE: Any Advice?

Bob Russell — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:14:34 GMT

We are in the New Forest.

We do a bit of stress (sometimes quite a lot) plus have been known to get pretty fed up at times. Really don't do depression as such here!

My marker for depression is 'would a good holiday fix it'? Generally answer is yes therefore not depression!!

RE: Any Advice?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:41:24 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]So having found a job that seemed ideal as fitted in very well with family life I have just found out they are not keeping me on after the 3 month probationary period. The practice has been especially quiet, and they have decided that my hours are not fitting in[/quote]

It is awful that you feel let down but, reading your posts, I suspect I have been in the same position as your employer. I have previously tried to work around parents needing to finish early for childcare reasons, but we also found it difficult in the end. (Although I didn't sack anyone.) It just means other vets have to do more antisocial hours to fill the gaps, and the practice is short staffed when it is busy, often for evening surgeries. Don't take it personally...I'm sure it is simply a business decision, and good luck in finding somewhere that works better for you.

RE: Any Advice?

Jill Butterworth — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:22:12 GMT

It is possible to be regular part-time at 2 -3 practices, as a locum/freelancer and have both enough work and some continuity. Be open minded to it, as if your childcare arrangements are sorted it can work very well.

RE: Any Advice?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:31:14 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]There is a world of difference between being peeved at a situation and being clinically depressed and I wouldn't assume anything.[/quote] Of course there is, I was making no assumption, all I was saying was that the OP needs to be careful she is not in denial over this. There are a lot of little clues about other problems going on in her life and being insomniac. Mostly it worried me when she quoted an attempted suicide case - it may indicate an unhealthy mental state and this is in turn may be part of the employment issue if not just as a result of it.

RE: Any Advice?

An On MRCVS — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:31:17 GMT

Thank you all,

As expected feeling better today, despite very little sleep (teething child).

I put the depression bit as I thought people would flag it up. I really do feel fine, thank you for concern, just upset, and a little in shock which takes a bit of time to process.

I guess it stings a little the practice have a new vet starting soon -full time, so feel like I have just been used to fill the gap. If I am being generous maybe they were thinking it would be busier and they would keep me too. They said if things were busier then would keep me on. It has been extremely quiet, all the practices in area seem to be saying the same. So maybe everything will take off again in the next few weeks and all this will never have been an issue.

They have also said if I locumed they would be happy to have me back for this, so plan is if nothing found before the end of my time there possibly suggest they continue my VDS cover and I'll do any odd days they can, I suppose like a zero hours contract. I will be honest and say I don't know how much it is but does this sound fair?

Yes will write to local practices, was about to do this last time but found this job first. Where are you in the country Bob?

I think it was also the fact we had the children settled in childcare, so fingers crossed I find something and don't have to completely pull them out.

thank you all and will keep you updated.

Life really is good, just need the final missing piece - a job!

RE: Any Advice?

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 19:15:48 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]My impression is that, despite your assertion to the contrary, you are suffering from a form of depression and although the advice so far on here has been constructive this is something you must address[/quote]

There is a world of difference between being peeved at a situation and being clinically depressed and I wouldn't assume anything.

Regarding the original post, could you talk to your current employer and ask for them to consider any options that would enable you to stay? Reduced hours, being willing to sit and fill out insurance forms when quiet, training/supervising younger vets, doing training youself to fill a gap in the skillset, or anything else that would give them a bonus and justify keeping you on while business is quiet. I echo what Michael said- it is a quiet time currently but if this will pick up. Don't burn any bridges, they may well find they need some help again in a couple of months.

Above all, it is indeed rubbish, but this will pass and you will find yourself somewhere you fit in that can keep you long-term. If it isn't where you are currently then chin up and look at what you can do, whether it be find work locally or move somewhere for a perfect job. I found it impossible to work full time with evening shifts as a mum and went freelance till a job with the hours I wanted came up. I didn't struggle for work, had more time with my son and don't regret it at all.

Marie

RE: Any Advice?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 17:53:52 GMT

I feel for you anon, no wonder you are disappointed but the fact that you know you can hold down a job for a long time as you did in your first practice means you know you can do it. Don't take it personally , they have probably just done some cash flow figures and realise that they can't commit to continuing to employ you.

You have got a lot of commitments if your husband is away and you are looking after children. That's like being a single parent effectively and surgery times and childcare are very often difficult to make compatible without a partner to free you. I am conjecturing but that might be the sticking point for you because child friendly hours say 9-5 are often the time when a practice has enough staff and it's the evenings and weekends that cause the crunch when everyone wants to be home or out gadding as we say.

It does get easier as children become older and maybe you could actively look to employ someone who will work the teatime shift rather than a 9-5 childminder. I'm sure that this has struck a chord with many vets who are trying to be great parents and follow their careers at the same time.

I agree with other suggestions to contact practices who are not advertising but who might be interested in employing you if you make it an attractive option. Dont forget all the support out there such as Vetlife , even if you just want to talk about your disappointment and want to get how you feel off your chest.

RE: Any Advice?

Bob Russell — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:59:22 GMT

I have little doubt there is an element of depression here but you do have a bit of a right to be unhappy!

Always tough to find you are losing a job especially if it is one that you have enjoyed.

I would tend to agree that writing or even turning up at the front desk (a little risky though!!) at other practices is better than waiting for a job advert.

I would probably bite your hand off if you were near here!

We had a tougher year last year because a more aggressive 'budget' practice opened up with a lot of fanfare and cheap offers so that put us under pressure. It could be that the practice is under similar pressure. Thankfully people have become wise and we are back to full surgeries at present even if the ops are lighter!

Best of luck but get some help, Vetlife might be worth a call.

These dips do pass and life gets back on course even if it is not the one you originally envisaged!!

Keep using the forum for a bit of moral support!

RE: Any Advice?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:38:42 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]The same evening I found out about my job I have also found out someone I know has taken an overdose, it would appear they will be ok and does put my issues into perspective. (I am far from depressed)[/quote]I was waiting for something like this to appear. My impression is that, despite your assertion to the contrary, you are suffering from a form of depression and although the advice so far on here has been constructive this is something you must address. The very fact you felt the need to bring up the subject of someone else committing suicide is worrying. Don't be in denial, you need to seek professional help, as someone suggested you might already have easy access to this through your partner's career connections. Don't dismiss the the fact that reason the practice is not keeping you on is because this is affecting your work.

Whatever else, reflect on the fact that you have a breadwinner in the family and you don't have to worry about income in the short term and can look forward to more quality time with your young family - presumably the remortgage can go on the back-burner.

If you're super confident that this is all tosh then fine but sometimes it needs someone else to be honest to make you realise you have a problem.

RE: Any Advice?

Nicola Cole — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:48:41 GMT

I don't know how many hours you are looking to work so my reply may not be helpful but just in case it suits you!

Rather than looking for an advertised job (which are usually full time or a number of full days) have you considered just writing to local practices to see if any part time work is available? You may find that a practice owner could do with having a couple of mornings off to get management tasks done (but that isn't something that would usually be advertised). If you could find that at a couple of practices would that work for you?

There wouldn't be the client continuity and depends whether there are a number of practices locally but worth a try!

RE: Any Advice?

Wren — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:35:14 GMT

I don't know if I can offer anything concrete myself, but there is a new FB support group 'MumsVet' which seems to be full of people with similar problems and childcare vs work dilemmas. It sprang up as an offshoot of the BEVA Mums blogs (which are excellent reading, by the way), but there are all sorts of vets on there, not just horsey ones. If you search on FB you should find it. Let me know if not.

ETA - oh, and although you obviously can't be anon on FB, if you message one of the admins if you want to post anything like this, they will do so anonymously on your behalf to preserve your privacy.

RE: Any Advice?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:52:15 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Husband is forces so is at home sometimes but not reliably. Tried working the longer hours when just one child but it didn't really work and was incredibly stressful when he had to go somewhere at the drop of a hat![/quote]

Can you talk to the most appropriate military welfare organisation? I don't know which that would be in your case. Or contact your husband's CO initially and be pointed in the right direction. They will do much more than hand-holding and making sympathetic noises – may be able to offer better suggestions than I can and might even talk to your present employer and work something out.

RE: Any Advice?

An On MRCVS — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:33:27 GMT

Actually thank you Micheal, just someone else saying it is all a bit shit makes the world of difference.

Husband is forces so is at home sometimes but not reliably. Tried working the longer hours when just one child but it didn't really work and was incredibly stressful when he had to go somewhere at the drop of a hat!