Your public profile

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:29:17 GMT

[quote user="Mike Dale"]

Arlo I'm never the swiftest to cotton on to IT stuff but the "Add Education" bit perplexes me. Are the beginning and end dates referring to duration of time at university or to the current job whose tick box sits mysteriously alongside. I left everything blank.[/quote]

Mike Dale You've just spotted a bit of mis-labelling there. All that tick box does is take the second date to the present date without you having to type it in. So if you are still at university (!), then you tick that and it will display the from date to the current date. It should be labelled 'to current date' or 'current university' or something. I'll get that fixed next week, but meantime you can just enter the from and to dates and leave that box unticked ...

RE: Your public profile

Mike Dale — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:07:10 GMT

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 09:43:47 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But even if every visitor to your site did visit the 'About us' page, what about the people that didn't find your website in amongst the 1 billion that there are on the internet?! The point is that the more references there are to you / your practice online, the better the chance of being found in response to a given search term[/quote]

For that we have search optimisation. We're not naïve you know.

[/quote]

J G Wray you seem to want to argue that what I am doing is useless / pointless / worthless. I am not taking offence at that - I clearly haven't explained myself well enough, because I know that what VetSurgeon Profiles offer is most certainly not useless/pointless or worthless!

I would gently make the point that I have been working on the Internet for 17 years now, a very large part of which has been building websites and search engine marketing both on my own account and for others. I've also paid others who specialise in this area to advise me. I know my stuff.

Search engine optimisation is defined as using strategies to try and achieve high search engine rankings for your website. It involves two things: making sure the content on your pages is coded and structured in such a way that Google 'translates it' into the right search result. Secondly securing inbound links to your website, which Google counts as a vote for your website.

The MOST IMPORTANT of these two things is the number and quality of links to your website.

An inbound link from a long-established and high-ranking website like VetSurgeon is a valuable addition to your inbound links.

BUT STILL, search engine optimisation cannot ever ensure you are found in response to every search you could ever want to be found in response to.

So part of any good online marketing strategy is making sure you can be found on third party websites, which may appear in circumstances when your own website may not (or indeed alongside results for your own website, to add credibility and/or reduce the chance of a competitor appearing in the results).

This is especially true if you have a website that is:

[quote user="J G Wray"]in transition to a new format[/quote]

[quote user="J G Wray"][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]And finally, even if you DO rank extraordinarily highly for the right search term, and people find you, perhaps on the 'About us' page, it is a good thing to have multiple references come up in a search result, from different sources, because it adds credibility. In other words, if you search for a person or organisation and you get one result and you have to look hard for even that, you think they must be small fry (and they often are). But if your search produces a long list of references from reputable looking sources, you think 'aha', this is someone / something important/trustworthy etc. [/quote]

Practice is not a virtual event like purchasing something on line. At some point this translates to a phone call or the arrival of an animal at our practice. Our online presence only has to achieve the human contact and client visit, not be and end in itself.[/quote]

You're slightly teaching granny to suck eggs here!! The point of a veterinary surgeon or practice or both having a strong online presence is PURELY to increase the chances of converting the internet search to a phone call, or the arrival of the animal in practice. Nothing more.

[quote user="J G Wray"]This forum is the antithesis of that.[/quote]

This forum has nothing to do with that!

[quote user="J G Wray"]Trust is established upon that contact, not at the time of virtual interaction.[/quote] No, no, no, no, no. Trust is something that is built. You START building trust from the very first interaction, whether it be on a billboard, on the internet, a direct mail, whatever.

Come back to the example of my prostate doctor (not a direct comparison, because he is a referral doc, but same principles). I googled him. I could see immediately that there were multiple references to him from various seemingly high-quality sources. I could see he was published. Gives talks. I started to feel trust. I decided the call was worth making.

[quote user="J G Wray"][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Finally, your own practice website visibility (by which I mean how many times it is returned as a result for a search on google, and for which terms) is largely determined by the number of inbound links it has. VetSurgeon Profiles will offer you an additional link to your website to help it up, or maintain it at the top of the charts.[/quote]

We choose to drive this mainly through social media interaction, like Facebook and other local online media. Gently be it said, that's a bigger deal the vetsurgeon.org[/quote]

I think we might be talking about two different things here. Inbound links are good for two distinct reasons:

a) To drive traffic directly

b) As a sign to Google that your site is important, and therefore should rank highly in search results.

Facebook is (or can be) a VERY good way of driving traffic directly. Links from facebook are NOT, for a variety of technical reasons, very good at providing a sign to Google that your site is important (thereby driving more traffic from google itself). More about this here: https://www.stonetemple.com/googles-matt-cutts-understanding-social-identity-on-the-web-is-hard/

In summary, I am NOT trying to suggest that VetSurgeon Profiles are going to transform your business or provide the answer to world poverty or anything.

What I AM saying is that they will most certainly provide a valuable supplement to other strategies you use to improve your online profile.

RE: Your public profile

J G Wray — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 08:57:34 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I am not aware of any data to support your principle that the most visited page after a landing page is 'About us'. In fact, that will vary enormously from one website to the next and depend on many factors, including how visible the link is and how relevant it is to the user to know 'About us'.[/quote]

We are not masters of our website stats at the moment with the website in transition to a new format, but others may be able to help you with this.

For that we have search optimisation. We're not naïve you know.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]And finally, even if you DO rank extraordinarily highly for the right search term, and people find you, perhaps on the 'About us' page, it is a good thing to have multiple references come up in a search result, from different sources, because it adds credibility. In other words, if you search for a person or organisation and you get one result and you have to look hard for even that, you think they must be small fry (and they often are). But if your search produces a long list of references from reputable looking sources, you think 'aha', this is someone / something important/trustworthy etc. [/quote]

Trust is established upon that contact, not at the time of virtual interaction.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Finally, your own practice website visibility (by which I mean how many times it is returned as a result for a search on google, and for which terms) is largely determined by the number of inbound links it has. VetSurgeon Profiles will offer you an additional link to your website to help it up, or maintain it at the top of the charts.[/quote]

We choose to drive this mainly through social media interaction, like Facebook and other local online media. Gently be it said, that's a bigger deal the vetsurgeon.org

RE: Your public profile

Jill Butterworth — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 19:44:40 GMT

I would vote for optional parts being publicly visible. Oh, and I want to ad loads more personal interests than you have options for, couldn't that just be put on oneself?

RE: Your public profile

Niall Taylor — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 10:09:57 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I wonder, how about Evidence/Science-based, Rational Veterinary Medicine. [/quote]

Rational or science-based medicine is different in key ways from evidence-based medicine (often something not appreciated by EBM folks) I would hate to see the two conflated that way. I'm happy to leave rational medicne/critical thinking off the list if it's difficult, afterall, it's probably only me , and I can put it in freehand in other sections.

Cheers,

Niall

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 18:21:21 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]OK.

It's is a well established principle since the dawn of Websites that the most visited page after the landing page is the About Us page.

What you find there is what you want to offer the Webosphere.[/quote]

J G Wray Alright smartypants

I think you are slightly missing the point!

I am not aware of any data to support your principle that the most visited page after a landing page is 'About us'. In fact, that will vary enormously from one website to the next and depend on many factors, including how visible the link is and how relevant it is to the user to know 'About us'.
But even if every visitor to your site did visit the 'About us' page, what about the people that didn't find your website in amongst the 1 billion that there are on the internet?! The point is that the more references there are to you / your practice online, the better the chance of being found in response to a given search term
And finally, even if you DO rank extraordinarily highly for the right search term, and people find you, perhaps on the 'About us' page, it is a good thing to have multiple references come up in a search result, from different sources, because it adds credibility. In other words, if you search for a person or organisation and you get one result and you have to look hard for even that, you think they must be small fry (and they often are). But if your search produces a long list of references from reputable looking sources, you think 'aha', this is someone / something important/trustworthy etc.
Finally, your own practice website visibility (by which I mean how many times it is returned as a result for a search on google, and for which terms) is largely determined by the number of inbound links it has. VetSurgeon Profiles will offer you an additional link to your website to help it up, or maintain it at the top of the charts.

So, really, there are LOTS of reasons why it is highly beneficial to have a good online presence, which I think can be really helped with a professional-looking VetSurgeon Profile.

[quote user="J G Wray"]There is also the point that our clients in general practice are not searching for vets with a mouthful of qualifications. See Mellanby and others work.[/quote]

This doesn't really make any difference one way or the other. What I am doing is help raise your online profile. The letters after your name are incidental.

[quote user="KathW"]Professional interests - e.g. in ophthalmology don't equate to "specialist in ophthalmology". It could be something that someone has an interest in but average knowledge about and wishes to further their knowledge and experience in. The general public wouldn't be aware of this possible distinction.[/quote]

KathW - I'd like to think that the distinction is there between an 'interest' and a 'qualification', but I take your point, and if that looks like being an issue, perhaps a tweak in verbiage will be needed (small bit of sub text to explain the difference).

Niall Taylor - Hmm I wonder, how about Evidence/Science-based, Rational Veterinary Medicine.

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]On another subject, how about including General Practice as a discipline, and Reading as an interest?[/quote]

See earlier in the thread. At the early stage, I'd like to stick to things which typically have a strong offline social aspect, and then broaden it out from there once i have the first bit of functionality in to show the concept.

And I'm not sure about general practice. I mean, I'd sort of take that as a bit of a given, and not sure if it sits correctly alongside the other disciplines (things like cardiology, ophthalmology and the like).

RE: Your public profile

Niall Taylor — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 15:51:13 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] I think this would go under 'Disciplines', because it sort of is one. I'm just not sure your title is quite right...[/quote]

For me, skepticism and critical thinking is an interest which goes way beyond my professional life so the 'discipline' category would be quite right really. Point taken about the semantics but for many 'skepticism' is very much a positive. How about 'critical thinking and rational based practice'?

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I'm trying to think of a form of words for a VS who is interested in practising medicine based on their own critical analysis of papers[/quote]

Well, that's evidence-based veterinary medicine if I have understood correctly, which isn't the same as rational, or science-based veterinary medicine, which has a much stronger emphasis on prior plausibility than EBVM and is more resistant to those who misuse science.

On another subject, how about including General Practice as a discipline, and Reading as an interest?

Niall

RE: Your public profile

KathW — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:50:21 GMT

Professional interests - e.g. in ophthalmology don't equate to "specialist in ophthalmology". It could be something that someone has an interest in but average knowledge about and wishes to further their knowledge and experience in. The general public wouldn't be aware of this possible distinction.

RE: Your public profile

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:16:49 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

wouldn't mind having the professional bit of a profile displayed in all its glory to the public, but I wouldn't want them to know about, for instance, my outside interests or how many practices I was sacked from, even though members of VS can see them.

[/quote]

What Evelyn said! That's roughly what I meant.

RE: Your public profile

J G Wray — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 12:49:30 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Why does that matter? Well ... I had to visit a Dr for prostate treatment a few months ago (I know, too much detail). The point is, what did I do first? I googled him to see how well he knew his stuff![/quote]

OK.

It's is a well established principle since the dawn of Websites that the most visited page after the landing page is the About Us page.

What you find there is what you want to offer the Webosphere.

There is also the point that our clients in general practice are not searching for vets with a mouthful of qualifications. See Mellanby and others work.

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 12:22:12 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Re. interests etc, could we have 'critical thinking and scepticism' or similar please. Niche, I know, but there are a few of us out there![/quote]

Hmm - I think this would go under 'Disciplines', because it sort of is one. I'm just not sure your title is quite right.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-chat/the-difference-between-skepticism-and-critical-thinking-t7104.html

In the above link, I am mindful of the point they make (esp if this is displayed on a public profile), that not everyone thinks of skepticism as a positive.

I'm trying to think of a form of words for a VS who is interested in practising medicine based on their own critical analysis of papers (I mean, I know you all do that to some degree or other, but for some it might be a glance at the abstract, whereas what I mean here is people who have a real interest in reading the paper in full and questioning it).

RE: Your public profile

Niall Taylor — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:33:24 GMT

Having a public profile would be fine by me, I'd probably opt for 'public'.

Re. interests etc, could we have 'critical thinking and scepticism' or similar please. Niche, I know, but there are a few of us out there!

Niall

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:18:09 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]but I wouldn't want them to know about, for instance, my outside interests or how many practices I was sacked from, even though members of VS can see them.[/quote]

Hmm - Well, nobody ever puts 'I was sacked from here, here, here and here' in their profiles!

I think this is a numbers thing, and probably I need to start by giving the simple option to make the profile public or not, as it is (or perhaps with non-clinical interests obscured, though I do frequently see VSs sharing their interests on practice websites, linkedin etc). Then see how people use it in real life. And if lots of people say they'd like to make the profile public, but not happy with 'interests' or 'experience' being visible, then we add options to hide those.

Meantime, this is all strictly optional anyway, so if you want to keep it visible only to logged in members, you can.

RE: Your public profile

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:04:51 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]The point is, what did I do first? I googled him to see how well he knew his stuff![/quote]

Oooooh.....

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

clients?

Second question. My techies say we should give you the ability to specify which elements of your profile you want to make public (Telephone/Summary/About/Qualifications/Where Qualified and Interests).

[/quote]

They are right. I wouldn't mind having the professional bit of a profile displayed in all its glory to the public, but I wouldn't want them to know about, for instance, my outside interests or how many practices I was sacked from, even though members of VS can see them.

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 09:48:21 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I personally think that many would be happy to be contacted by other members of the profession, but for the public to have access to your fields/practice but no personal.

Then maybe many would choose complete anonymity for several reasons, including 'I haven't got round to do it yet'[/quote]

Not sure I quite understand what you mean!

Here's a fully completed profile of a veterinary surgeon ...

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/members/teenymac/

My thoughts:

a) I think it would be highly beneficial for Qualifications, Qualified at, and interests to be visible to the outside world, and I don't see any downsides.

b) I also don't see any downsides to 'work experience' being visible to the outside world, but wonder if there might be a reason why one might not want to show it. I think it helps bolster credentials, myself. Millions (inc veterinary surgeons) do it on Linkedin.

c) I can imagine that some people might put things in their 'about' field that are for members of the profession, not the public. But I suspect these might be relatively few and far between. And the solution would be either to keep your profile private, or amend the 'about' field so that it is suitable to be displayed in public.

d) Name and practice and (coming shortly) practice website. Only benefits to displaying these details, as it is another way potential clients can find you, thereby giving you a slight edge over anyone who doesn't have a profile.

Francisco Gomez - not sure what you mean by having access to your fields/no personal.

I think we are probably saying the same thing. ie the option (stress option) to make a/b/c/d visible. The option to display a telephone number - either just to other members, or publicly. Everything else, including all the quick link stuff on the RHS (your site activity, CPD, colleagues, mentions etc) hidden.

RE: Your public profile

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 08:59:47 GMT

I personally think that many would be happy to be contacted by other members of the profession, but for the public to have access to your fields/practice but no personal.

Then maybe many would choose complete anonymity for several reasons, including 'I haven't got round to do it yet'

RE: Your public profile

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 08:48:45 GMT

Bump - nobody sticking their hand up, not sure if that's because I said 'there's more' (so you're all sitting there on the edge of your seats, white knuckled in anticipation).

Qu: Do you like the sound of being able to make your VS Profile (that is JUST the main profile page with your skills, experience, post grad qualifications etc) visible outside VetSurgeon.org to anyone?

And b)

Are you happy that it would be a simple on/off switch on your profile, with an additional choice on your telephone number: Private / VSMembers Only / Public