Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 17:42:33 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

When will the democratic will of the other citizens in the EU be expressed?

[/quote]

God knows, AFAIK Spain holds GEs q4yrs and it doesn't use a FPTP system. Don't know about the others.

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

The EU needs to reform or it will die -

[/quote]

We all die. Geographic borders, political unions and agreements are no different. There will be a time when the EU won't exist, same with the UK or even England. It's about going forward with times and learn from mistakes I guess. Nationalisms might have a place, but Internet has shown us the world is too small for some and the countries too large for many.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:58:18 GMT

At the risk of diverting the thread completely it would seem that both France and Sweden would like restrictions to cheap labour undercutting local workers. Sound a tad familiar?

Polish transport companies undercutting French ones.

(I admit it was the Express that I saw that in and we all know what that paper thinks of Johnny Foreigner! Could not resist that one as thoroughly enjoy 'Dead Ringers'!!)

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:45:20 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]But it is exactly this what lay people are seeing in the media.[/quote]

Regrettably, this aspect of the news has been effectively hijacked by the Remoaners. There is a widespread belief that the EU has been good for farm animal welfare when the bulk of the evidence suggest completely the opposite. A lay person reading the recent spurt of reporting about animal welfare might be surprised to learn that, for example while the UK banned Sow Stalls and tethering in the late 1990's, the EU continues to allow the practice. Similarly, I am sure that we can all believe that the Polish milk that is now imported to make Wensleydale cheese etc is produced from farms that are every bit as clean and welfare savvy as those in UK!!

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]This is exactly how the democratic will of the people was expressed last year.[/quote]

When will the democratic will of the other citizens in the EU be expressed? That nice Mr Verhofstadt said last week that his parliament (yep, he said, "his" parliament) will get the chance to comment on Mr Barnier's negotiation. That is Mr Barnier who was appointed by a small cabal of other appointees who are about as far away from the expressed will of the people as Margaret Thatcher was from radical socialism.

The EU needs to reform or it will die - currently the oligarchy seems to be pursuing the latter option.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:43:26 GMT

The problem now is that the consumer is used to chicken being a 'cheap' commodity. The only way to produce them is to have large units right the way through from egg to table.

Slowing down a slaughter line will do little to reduce final contamination levels except by spraying the equipment with chlorinated water! I was an OVS when environmental health were responsible for hygiene. We worked in a very good area with an excellent team but it was patchy throughout the country!

Since the MHS came into being the influence of vets and meat inspectors has become watered down and the plant management have progressively got the upper hand in many places.

US poultry is unlikely to be any more or less 'safe' than UK origin meat IMO.

Chicken used to be a premium product that only made it to tables as a special treat!

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Iain Richards — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:01:33 GMT

I agree Malcolm. I'd go one stage further and consider removing private ownership of slaughterhouses.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:52:31 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I accept that some of the processing is to improve food safety. However if the slaughter process was better, it wouldn't be needed. Take more time, more care, if necessary employ more people. [/quote]

Perhaps we could have a range of well run, local abattoirs with good traceability of locally raised, locally killed meat all supervised by a team of fully trained, focussed, dedicated, independent and completely focussed meat inspectors with the power to close an abattoir irrespective of what the politics of their employers might wish. We could even call them Environmental Health Officers just like the old days.

Not every EU driven change has been for the better!!

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Iain Richards — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:16:53 GMT

I accept that some of the processing is to improve food safety. However if the slaughter process was better, it wouldn't be needed. Take more time, more care, if necessary employ more people.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:10:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Just because someone dislikes Brexit does not mean it is the cause of every woe in life.[/quote]So all those people who voted to be poorer are happy now?

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:09:12 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the democratic will of the people last year.

If in doubt blame it on Brexit!

This chlorine bit is pure bad journalism. It has nothing to do with welfare (other than ours). There are various final hygiene treatments being investigated to try to reduce the bug count on poultry. It may turn out that chlorine is the best way to do it.

Headline: Radioactive poultry - your Sunday roast is going to be irradiated!

The EU are proposing the use of chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite, peroxyacids and trisodium phosphate for use within the EU. I think I would prefer a bit of dilute bleach myself.

The US consider this a trade barrier and I suspect they are largely right!

Just because someone dislikes Brexit does not mean it is the cause of every woe in life.

[/quote]

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:13:22 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

If in doubt blame it on Brexit!

[/quote]

The new 'if in doubt, blame it on the EU'

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:37:36 GMT

Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the democratic will of the people last year.

If in doubt blame it on Brexit!

Headline: Radioactive poultry - your Sunday roast is going to be irradiated!

The EU are proposing the use of chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite, peroxyacids and trisodium phosphate for use within the EU. I think I would prefer a bit of dilute bleach myself.

The US consider this a trade barrier and I suspect they are largely right!

Just because someone dislikes Brexit does not mean it is the cause of every woe in life.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:11:33 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

If you worried about hormones, better stop drinking the water (and it has chlorine in as well!)

[/quote]

I know you do mean this with a laugh. But it is exactly this what lay people are seeing in the media. Not many actually understand the real reason of why the chicken gets chlorinated at the end of the processing in the US and why it is banned in the EU. Which is nothing to do with the chlorine itself.

This is exactly how the democratic will of the people was expressed last year.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Richard Carter — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:43:44 GMT

If you worried about hormones, better stop drinking the water (and it has chlorine in as well!)

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:03:23 GMT

I bought some energy/protein bars for cycling because their nutritional value and suitability for the activity involved. It was only when they arrived and my veggie nurse pointed out that they were suitable for vegans that I realised they are vegan sweeties. Just goes to show something but nothing to do with the OP and I've managed to mention cycling twice in a thread that has nothing to do with it either!

I guess Bob would approve (the bars not the cycling as he's averse to exercise).

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:49:01 GMT

My father hated beetroot.

He had once been seconded for months to a Czech squadron who seemed to subsist on beetroot soup.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

bob lehner — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:03:39 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Personally find "butter beans" disgusting (association with school dinners I'm afraid), also garlic and broccoli[/quote]

Yum yum...

De gustibus non est disputandum.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 19:36:51 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Would you eat the aborted foetus of a spotted hyaena?[/quote]

That would depend upon why it aborted, also whether it tasted good (like chicken does) and on the general nutritional analysis (chicken is good).

I ate the liver of a calf after embryotomy.

Personally find "butter beans" disgusting (association with school dinners I'm afraid), also garlic and broccoli, but I keep it to myself.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

bob lehner — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 17:52:55 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="bob lehner"]

Just proves that eating a chicken is a disgusting thing to do !

[/quote]

Why?

[/quote]

It just is.

Would you eat the aborted foetus of a spotted hyaena?

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:38:22 GMT

But where are they slaughtered and processed?

My experience is that welfare and hygiene can be significantly lower at smaller plants. Supermarkets actually have quite a big influence on how larger plants work. OV cover tends to be more extensive, not that that makes much of a difference always.

At least we know what happens with the supermarket birds and make a judgement from that. Waitrose claim higher standards and Tesco are Tesco.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Clive Ansell — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:18:26 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Just proves that eating a chicken is a disgusting thing to do ![/quote]

It doesn't have to be.

You can all stick with the mass produced white amorphous mush that passes for chicken from the likes of Tesco if you so wish.

I will continue to buy my meat from a local farm shop, most of it is off the same farm or ones very local; free range chicken, extensive grass fattened beef, game and venison during season, high quality, excellent standards of welfare and hygiene, and doesn't actually cost much more that the sh1te from supermarkets.

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:04:28 GMT

Nah! Yummy!

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:12:32 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

Just proves that eating a chicken is a disgusting thing to do !

[/quote]

Why?

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

bob lehner — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:07:46 GMT

Just proves that eating a chicken is a disgusting thing to do !

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Bob Russell — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 10:34:34 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]There is no doubt that we will get hormone beef from the USA [/quote]Alberto Contador failed a drugs test, was stripped of a Tour de France victory and banned for 18 months after 'eating a tainted steak'. Of course we all know this was bullsh1t, like a certain Mr Armstrong he was a serial doper and this was just a lame excuse. However could this mean that next one who pulls this as a defence will have a genuine case?

Back to the OP. Is it just me who can't see what's wrong with just cooking the chicken properly then there will be no problems?

[/quote]

Nothing wrong at all with cooking poultry well but many cooks seem incapable of dealing with raw chicken without smearing campylobacter around the kitchen!

Clearly some believe it is a good idea to feed these bits of raw chicken straight to their dogs. Perhaps a lowering of surface contamination may be of benefit!

Sadly this whole argument is being used as a means of protectionism. As the main source of BSE we don't have that great a track record and as I have said before, I don't think our welfare at slaughter track record is that much to crow about!

US meat is inspected by their equivalent of the MHS, residues are tested for there and can be here.

There is no requirement for us to accept additives that are already banned. One apparently is a flour whitening agent.

I am not convinced that we are going to have to accept anything that does not comply with our requirements any way.

All a bit of a distraction from more important things in life!

RE: Chlorinated chicken and animal welfare

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:56:04 GMT

Back to the OP. Is it just me who can't see what's wrong with just cooking the chicken properly then there will be no problems?