Self confidence nature or nurture?

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:11:21 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Does this mean Martin Atkinson knows nothing? [/quote]

No, you're confusing him with John Snow.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

David Mills — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 05:02:34 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I've always been pretty self confident and people tried to bully me at school but I never reacted to it so they got bored and moved on. There are a few people on here who've met me and would attest to the fact I am brutally honest. I'm that person that other people warn about before meeting me. I like that. People who know me they will get an honest answer and I will not take anyone's bullshit. I rub some people up the wrong way, but I really don't see that as my problem!

Something I will throw into the discussion:

[/quote]

Does this mean Martin Atkinson knows nothing?

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:11:34 GMT

Something I will throw into the discussion:

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 18:00:37 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I tend to be the same only I'm rarely in a bad mood at the practice (the nurses won't let me) it tends to be more when I'm forced to be somewhere I don't want to be like a party with people I don't really like/know, so much so my wife tends to not let me know we're going until the last minute. However, if I'm happy to be there I can be the life and soul.[/quote]

It would appear we are very much alike Martin.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:59:05 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I am a very confident person, and have a strong personality which tends to be infectious; meaning if I am in a good mood everyone seems to perk up, but if I am in a bad mood my little black cloud spreads throughout the practice.[/quote]I tend to be the same only I'm rarely in a bad mood at the practice (the nurses won't let me) it tends to be more when I'm forced to be somewhere I don't want to be like a party with people I don't really like/know, so much so my wife tends to not let me know we're going until the last minute. However, if I'm happy to be there I can be the life and soul. Not sure if this insecurity, lack of self confidence, shyness or I just don't suffer fools gladly, or maybe I'm just a bit manic depressive.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:10:27 GMT

This is an interesting one to read. I am a very confident person, and have a strong personality which tends to be infectious; meaning if I am in a good mood everyone seems to perk up, but if I am in a bad mood my little black cloud spreads throughout the practice.

My parents are very confident and outgoing people, so there is a degree of nature to it, but vet schools tend to nurture confidence/egos in male vets. Mainly because there are fewer male students per year, so they are more memorable to staff.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Jill Butterworth — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 22:09:57 GMT

'Fake it till you make it' is really true too. A recent psychology study asked one group of interviewees to adopt confident, open postures (leaning back, legs apart, arms behind head) for 10 mins in the waiting room, and the second group to adopt nervous poses (hunched over, huddled). Each group was then interviewed for a 'job', and the ones who had earlier adopted the confident poses, invariably got the job. The conclusion was that that there is a feedback mechanism from confident posture, which actually makes you more confident, rather like smiling makes you feel happier.

Just typing this, I realised: consider the typical 'phone' posture people adopt half the time these days...

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:03:21 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Sounds like you read that as me having a pop at you. I wasn't![/quote]Not at all Arlo, I'm surprised you don't know my sense of humour by now and even if I was boasting I fully expected someone to give a friendly put down. You should know I'm so vain but also self-deprecating so it becomes a bit of an oxymoron that no criticism phases me in the slightest anyway. What you now have to work out is if I was being sarcastic about you looking more handsome in real life!

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:38:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I found my métier in laughter.[/quote]And that after I said you looked younger (and more handsome) in real life than your avatar. Good job I'm self-confident otherwise I might be hurt.

[/quote]

Shirley shome cofushion

Sounds like you read that as me having a pop at you. I wasn't!

You said you overcame your 'social hurdles' by being good at sport and popular with the girls. Unfortunately, I was rubbish at sport and the girls weren't exactly queuing up like the Harrods sale, so I had to find something else. That something was laughter. I found that making people laugh compensated for my various and numerous other deficiencies.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:01:10 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Our eldest daughter is 13 and very much like her dad in looks- and nature! [/quote]My elder daughter is very much Daddy's girl, a risk taker and super-self confident, albeit she looks like her mother (possibly as well after Arlo's hurtful comment!) but her younger sister is the opposite and suffers from anxiety. However she finds her way to express her inner self on stage where she is super confident. What a complex issue.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Julie Innes — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:25:12 GMT

Interesting one! I definitely think nature plays a role. I am not confident at all, despite doing really well at school. I found the vets in my year so confident and self-assured that I always felt stupid, so rarely spoke out, although I often turned out to be right, but just didn't dare voice my thoughts! Sometimes I feel a bit the same on here! I worry too much about what other people think, I know that, but can't seem to help it.

my husband, on the other hand, left school at 16 with no qualifications and joined the Royal Navy. He is in a fairly specialised branch and very confident. He doesn't care what people think of him at all.

Our eldest daughter is 13 and very much like her dad in looks- and nature! Peer pressure has no effect on her, she says what she thinks and is very confident. Her younger sister is just as intelligent, but is more like me in looks and nature, and is hugely affected by peer pressure and wants everyone to like her.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 10:07:54 GMT

[quote user="ell"]I think it's very hard for a person to become self confident just by experience. I have worked with so many vets who need constant encouragement to be confident when dealing with all sorts of situations in practice and never seem to quite get it. [/quote]

Yes, when a newbie [one rectal ,prior to graduation, straight into very intensive dairy practice] is asked "What took you so long?" in my first calving season, it doesn't help......

But on a forum I don't think any response should be taken as personal unless it is worded as such.

"You", or a poster's name, shouldn't be mentioned in any post.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 09:05:44 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I wasn't one of the in-crowd, I was a bit of a nerd and was occasionally bullied[/quote]

I was the same.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]But I was comfortable with that[/quote]

I wasn't!

Maybe that's the difference; you already had the self-confidence not to care too much; 'it's their problem'.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]But I guess my ace was I was quite good at sports so eventually got some grudging respect and when I realised I was quite good looking (OK a matter of opinion) and the girls liked me more than the bullies well I never looked back![/quote]

I found my métier in laughter.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 08:50:40 GMT

[quote user="Bill Nolan"]Whilst I was never very confident as a child, I was always incredibly curious - curiosity, a trait which I believe is genetically linked - led me to discover more of the world and learn, through trial and error, that I could do most things I set my mind too, thus boosting self confidence. [/quote] Are any of us truly self confident as young children, isn't that curiosity the way we all develop confidence?

Interesting thought. I too was very curious. I was never happy with being told how things worked I always wanted to find out for my self and wanted to know how the natural world around me worked.

I chose to be atheist long before my teens even though my upbringing was Christian. I know it oversimplifies religious belief but couldn't see how one person, however omnipotent, could create everything I saw around me or how there could be heaven or hell and when I was given a stylised version of the Origin of Species, ostensibly because it contained lots of pretty pictures of animals, I was blown away. I recall my first school science lesson at secondary school as a revelation and I knew that there was nothing that could ever top that and that I'd never look back.

There is a danger of me making this a tangent of a tangent but it is topical: I just wonder now Bill has raised this suggestion that curiosity is genetically linked, how many religious fanatics are more easily indoctrinated because they don't have that natural curiosity to think there may be another way or the confidence to challenge what they are being told?

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

ell — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:06:21 GMT

I think it's very hard for a person to become self confident just by experience. I have worked with so many vets who need constant encouragement to be confident when dealing with all sorts of situations in practice and never seem to quite get it.

It is true many practice owners are generally confident in their own decisions and decision making ability and that would seem to pint to that being a large part of the reason for owning a practice.

As to the perceived and actual justification for the confidence, it often doesn't matter.

You can have a really good surgeon who isn't all that confident and is more likely to lose his/her bottle and need help whereas a more confident person will work through the problem.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:44:54 GMT

The correlation between perceived and actual ability or perceived and actual risk, is interesting.

Just look at the hard time I have had trying to raise awareness that handling equines carries a statistically similar risk to riding. It is very rare to to see a rider without a hat, and clearly, most of the time we don't fall off on our head.

It only happens once, though...

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Bill Nolan — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:48:46 GMT

Very interesting discussion. Whilst I was never very confident as a child, I was always incredibly curious - curiosity, a trait which I believe is genetically linked - led me to discover more of the world and learn, through trial and error, that I could do most things I set my mind too, thus boosting self confidence. I think genetics define who will venture out of the cave, regardless of confidence, and that our experiences outside the cave will determine how confident we are in future decisions. The one that got attacked became less confident, and that one who found a big ol' berry bush became more so.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:06:41 GMT

I was going to start a tangent on the same thing! I think it's a mixture of factors. Didn't somebody do a study on pups? (GSDs, CKCSs and Yorkies IIRC) which showed differences in confidence- GSDs as you would expect being most neophobic. Some GDBA youngsters get kicked out of guide dog school for being too ebullient or too fearful even though they have been raised by experienced puppy walkers. So a mixture of genetics and environment.

I work with several other vets and it's interesting the different personalities and strengths we have. I'm most inclined to robustly disagree with one of the partners as he is probably most to the right of the self confidence spectrum and seems to enjoy a good argument about clinical protocols. I still tell the others when I disagree but am a bit less bald about it. I'd be bolder in person than online too because tone and facial expression make such a difference to let someone know you're up for a cheerful sparring session rather than an out and out row.

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:51:29 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]When you're young, what other people think of you matters so, so much. What they think about your clothes, your sporting ability, your sense of humour, your choice of car, your ability at work and so on and so on. [/quote]You see that never bothered me, I wasn't one of the in-crowd, I was a bit of a nerd and was occasionally bullied. But I was comfortable with that if they needed the right fashion to be accepted etc etc that was their problem. But I guess my ace was I was quite good at sports so eventually got some grudging respect and when I realised I was quite good looking (OK a matter of opinion) and the girls liked me more than the bullies well I never looked back!

RE: Self confidence nature or nurture?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:43:03 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I just wonder how much self-confidence is genetically hard wired, how much was influenced by our upbringing and how much by our position in our employment.[/quote]

It's your age, mate!

No seriously. When you're young, what other people think of you matters so, so much. What they think about your clothes, your sporting ability, your sense of humour, your choice of car, your ability at work and so on and so on.

Then, as you grow old, you realise you've reached your station in life and have the friends you want; that all those things that mattered so much then, really don't matter at all now.

With those more comfortable boots comes self-confidence.

That's my theory, anyway.