Biggest pet insurance premium?

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 May 2017 17:16:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]AFAIK clients, if insured, can insist on referral for anything at any time [/quote]

Of course they can. And it doesn't matter whether they are insured or not.

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 May 2017 16:09:40 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]Lots of savings [/quote]

[just a link, not a note]

Could do a scheme where, [eg cruciates] were offered in house using the simple method but if the client, not the vet, insisted on referral for the "gold standard" then this was at the clients expense??

AFAIK clients, if insured, can insist on referral for anything at any time or am I wrong??

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Richard Carter — Fri, 12 May 2017 10:15:00 GMT

I have worked in a practice that set up its own in-house savings plan and seemed to work very well. The scheme had a ceiling amount like the life time policies (think was about £5k) and if there was a referral, it covered a percentage of the referral with a higher excess to be paid by the owner.

Similar to normal insurance there was an excess if there was a new condition so for eg the monthly premium was £20, a new condition would have a first time consultation of eg £30 excess (or more - long time ago) and if there were chronic problems such as labrador ears, there was a stipulation that a new condition was one that recurred after a certain period.

Think the partners worked out that had to generate about 5-6k/ month to be self sustaining and we reached that very quickly (4 branch practice but this was over 10 years ago). Similar to other schemes the client got the vacc, flea and worming treatment included.

Had quite a few hoops to jump through to be allowed to run direct debits but wasn't impossible. As far as I know is still running.

I know similar schemes in other countries usually ended when someone pinched the pot or it failed to reach critical turn over to sustain itself.

Lots of savings - drugs are cost price to yourself obviously but it was run as a separate entity so in consult, you charged as normal against the savings plan (we weren't allowed to refer to it as insurance as there was no cover for legal or damages etc) so can be done if you have the time to set it up, spend time with FSA etc

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 11 May 2017 21:16:42 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]PDSA operate more under this model. At one point they tried to launch a scheme in an area I worked in where folks could sign up, they would pay a local clinic £5 a month for each pet signed up and then the practice would treat them out of this "kitty" of cash as needed. It failed due to the locals not wishing to part with the £5 sign-up fee.[/quote]

This is/was the Pet Aid scheme

To me it solves many of the issues that we are facing in modern times. There is no doubt that outside interests are syphoning cash away from frontline veterinary staff. Insurance profits is only one.

The other which I feel is increasingly an issue is graduate satisfaction. By keeping much more in house can only be good for development and practices have for many years had visiting specialists and these are a cheaper option and the resident staff can learn from them.

The practices I work, where I really step up a gear and learn are in multi vet practices where the vast majority of work is done within house, yes there is referral but it's not a daily occurrence. I'm in a superb one at the moment.

Will you go bust very quickly as Bob suggests, maybe if you are unlucky, but I maintain that confidence builds confidence and there are practices on this forum (Grumpy's is an example) where I get the feeling that the skill set is there.

Neil

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Beats — Thu, 11 May 2017 20:26:47 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Why doesn't anyone use the BUPA or even GP model?

I ask, as had this thought 25 years ago.

Simply? charge clients an annual fee and do everything. This would cut out the insurance companies making margins.

Yes there are problems in regards the very complicated things, but if occasional referral is built into the business model, it would work wouldn't it?

Waiting for brickbats from practice owners and yes I am a locum but why not?

Neil

[/quote]

It's an interesting though Neil. I wondered if things would go this way with "treatment under this roof" in-house insurance years back when the referral scene took off and bills started to soar, but they haven't really.

Vetsure sounded like they might be in this direction when started, but I think has shifted more towards a more familiar model rather than being as revolutionary as might have imagined?

As for bias, it simply changes the bias. Does it change your definition of "Good Medicine" as to what profit model you are working under? (see Franklin McMillen's thoughtful commentary for a rare piece re business models and effects on "clinical work" that resonated for me: "Is good medicine defined by profit structure?" JAVMA, Vol 233, No. 1, July 1, 2008, pp. 30-33)

PDSA operate more under this model. At one point they tried to launch a scheme in an area I worked in where folks could sign up, they would pay a local clinic £5 a month for each pet signed up and then the practice would treat them out of this "kitty" of cash as needed. It failed due to the locals not wishing to part with the £5 sign-up fee.

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Rob Davis — Thu, 11 May 2017 20:02:36 GMT

And you are opening yourself up to accusations of conflicts of interests...

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Bob Russell — Thu, 11 May 2017 13:51:39 GMT

Because a string of emergency referrals (also known as sods law) will bankrupt the system!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 11 May 2017 12:46:29 GMT

Why doesn't anyone use the BUPA or even GP model?

I ask, as had this thought 25 years ago.

Simply? charge clients an annual fee and do everything. This would cut out the insurance companies making margins.

Yes there are problems in regards the very complicated things, but if occasional referral is built into the business model, it would work wouldn't it?

Waiting for brickbats from practice owners and yes I am a locum but why not?

Neil

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Richard Carter — Thu, 11 May 2017 10:29:27 GMT

think the 'more than' crowd actively encourage prescriptions/ online buying with leaflets included in reminders etc

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Bob Russell — Thu, 11 May 2017 10:04:39 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

Yes - had a dog on long term Atopica for sebaceous adenitis and the insurance told them to get it cheaper elsewhere (online)! Don't know the insurer though.

[/quote]

I guarantee it will be one of the companies that does not pay prescription charges!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 10 May 2017 17:57:10 GMT

Yes - had a dog on long term Atopica for sebaceous adenitis and the insurance told them to get it cheaper elsewhere (online)! Don't know the insurer though.

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

ian bates — Wed, 10 May 2017 17:52:20 GMT

I've had a client come in today saying their insurer, (Animal Friends) have advised him to source his loxicom on-line!!

Anyone else with this experience?

Ian

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 08 May 2017 08:59:38 GMT

I treated a french bulldog cross puppy for what we thought was distemper, turned out not to be, using the 4 weeks free petplan IVC. When it came to continuing the cover, they wanted £96 a month!!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 05 May 2017 18:52:37 GMT

"Insured" is now a diagnostic possibility!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 05 May 2017 14:21:15 GMT

And some vets, like car repairers, see £££ signs when the pet is insured which keeps the premiums higher than they should be!!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 05 May 2017 12:30:49 GMT

completely anecdotal as i can't remember the specific reference, but I seem to remember seeing a figure that said 80% of people with pet insurance claim on it, and something like 20-25% of pets are insured. This compares with mandatory insurance for cars (every car is supposed to be insured) and something like 5-10% of people claim on car insurance; so there's a massive pool of insured drivers NOT claiming that keep insurance prices for cars comparatively low.

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Bob Russell — Fri, 05 May 2017 12:07:02 GMT

That was Lloyds Bank!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 04 May 2017 18:14:18 GMT

Interestingly I've had a conversation with a client this week, also John Lewis with (admittedly) a French Bulldog, only 3 years old, with no claims at all so far. His premium has gone from around £35 per month to £70 plus. He wanted to phone and cancel, although once I pointed out any new policy would exclude his airways as we have mentioned the likelihood of BOAS surgery being required he decided to stick with it.

Was it JL who was forced into continuing pet insurance a few years ago as they had promised lifetime cover but wanted to pull out of the market? May not have been, but seems they are doing it via the back door...

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 May 2017 15:48:49 GMT

Quite genuine!

There were some hefty referral costs in the dim and distant past but in recent years treatment has been limited to thyroid medication/monitoring and we are not heavy handed with that!

RE: Biggest pet insurance premium?

Rob Davis — Thu, 04 May 2017 15:14:44 GMT

That surely can't be genuine! If it is, it would surely be worth a call to the ombudsman as they are effectively cancelling the policy.