(2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Kate Richardson — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:31:21 GMT

Anon- please message me re a job opportunity that might interest you

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:27:00 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]

£80,000 and no OOH?

I don't have access to SPVS salary thingy but that sounds way above average-or am I underestimating the average salary?

[/quote]But that is what you have to pay if you want to place yourself above the herd to attract employees. Everyone else is offering the 'average' so there are far more jobs than candidates.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

An On MRCVS — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:15:29 GMT

Anonymous for obvious reasons.

I am an experienced vet looking for a new job. I like it when a salary scale is mentioned as I've been to some jobs where they are offering peanuts (40k) for an experienced vet (15 years graduated, certificate holder, willing to do OOH) so it makes me wary of those that don't. Having said that work-life balance is just as important.

The other thing is you need to make your advert stand out as currently all the ones I am looking at are so similar that I have to spend time calling to even find out if I want to consider applying and this takes up so much time. But also do not put in things like cakes, need a sense of humour, we have an xray machine...

And please put where the practice is based - saves time having to look where the practice is before even looking at the rest of the add and looks like you are trying to hide.

As to a SA vet in the day and LA OOH - I could do it but would I want to?

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Wren — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:54 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]

[quote user="Sam"]

My husband and I had a discussion and he said I should advertise the potential salary (£80,000, which would be easily achievable if performance is adequate). I said I thought work life balance would be better. (No OOH, long weekends, plenty of holiday, pleasant clients).

[/quote]

£80,000 and no OOH?

I don't have access to SPVS salary thingy but that sounds way above average-or am I underestimating the average salary?

[/quote]

Nope! Average salary is in the £35-40k bracket. Or was last time I checked.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

KMurphy — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:04:01 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]£80,000 and no OOH?[/quote]

When can I start?!

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Nicola Cole — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:22:11 GMT

[quote user="Sam"]

[/quote]

£80,000 and no OOH?

I don't have access to SPVS salary thingy but that sounds way above average-or am I underestimating the average salary?

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:36:04 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]My research last year found that the majority of vets look online for jobs these days. So that is where we have been focussing our efforts. I've just invested in a huge piece of programming designed to improve our search engine visibility. I can't really say too much about it (commercially sensitive), but it's been three months in the making, it's already partially installed, and it's already starting to have an effect. We expect to complete the work this week. [/quote]

Update ... we completed the final installation of the latest upgrade to VetSurgeon.org Jobs this morning.

Slightly frustrating that after all the very hard work and money I've spent, I've got precious little to show you, because a) the work was 99.99% technical stuff that affects things you can't see, and b) as I said earlier, it's commercially sensitive.

I guess all I can say is that I genuinely believe that from a technical standpoint, we're punching well above our weight, right up there with the biggest general recruitment websites in the country, like indeed.co.uk, which have very much larger development budgets than ours.

We may only be charging £99, but genuinely want to make sure it's a well-spent £99!

Now taking a breather from that side of things (time now to monitor the impact of our work), and looking at other improvements and developments elsewhere on the site.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Sam — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:49:47 GMT

Thank you for explaining that Arlo.

I think the real problem may just be a lack of experienced vets in my area which has a low population density anyway.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:17:32 GMT

[quote user="Sam"]So I ran the advert my way and got a couple of replies.[/quote]

Good

[quote user="Sam"]Both not exactly what I needed.[/quote]

Not so good

[quote user="Sam"]Then I changed the advert (admittedly half way through so no longer at the top, but I thought the salary was good! Maybe now it seems inadequate). I got no further replies and I have to admit I was really surprised.[/quote]

Hmm, it's probably not so much about your position on the list, because the list reorders itself in response to location-based searches.

BUT, when a job is first posted, it is emailed to subscribers whose criteria it meets, and published on Facebook, Linkedin and Twitter.

However, it does NOT get re-sent to subscribers and reposted elsewhere if you edit it, so you don't get quite the same 'reach' with your edits as you would have from the original advert (plus it depends on how much time the advert had left to run).

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Sam — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:38:46 GMT

There is definitely a shortage of experienced vets. I have always found it difficult to fill the position of my second vet.

I recently advertised on here for an experienced SA vet. No OOH, choice to work no Saturday mornings apart from occasional holiday cover. We have good schools nearby and work in a lovely area of the country. The practice is small but has good equipment etc. There would have been some sole charge.

So I ran the advert my way and got a couple of replies. Both not exactly what I needed.

Then I changed the advert (admittedly half way through so no longer at the top, but I thought the salary was good! Maybe now it seems inadequate). I got no further replies and I have to admit I was really surprised.

So from my extremely limited experiment it seems vets are more likely to respond to an advert with good work life balance and may be less likely to respond to salary. I would love to test my theory further but don't want to keep advertising when I do not think I will attract any candidates at all.

I am using locums now and it is working fine at present but I would have preferred to have found somebody to fill the position properly.

I might try again at some point.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Emily Rainbow — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:06:21 GMT

I am also a SA biased vet (doing medicine cert) who also enjoys zoo/small ruminant/camelid work and happy to do other LA fire brigade work.

We are few and far between! i think these mixed practice jobs really sort the new grads into those who want to do farm in depth and those who really want to do smalls and not get dirty quite quickly. I just got stuck into everything available and feel quite rounded and confident in most emergency situations as a result. My day-to-day cow management knowledge is lacking but I know that so will ask for help as necc.

Others seem unable to apply first principles in unknown situations if they do have a bias and therefore opt out of the mixed experience. A lot don't want to do the LA OOH too.

We've not been able to recruit an experienced vet for the last 3yrs and instead have been getting new grads - south east, lots of perks, good pay, 1in7.

i think as the mixed practices are disappearing the skill of being a mixed practitioner is too, and the realisation that as one you cannot be a specialist in every species/department but that's not the point anyway.

ps shout if you need a locum!

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Eilidh Corr — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:06:10 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]despite rural mixed practice being a really great job.[/quote]

It really is, I agree, a fantastic mix of challenges and loads of job satisfaction, plenty hands-on surgical stuff you wouldn't get with a fully insured client base, and a good sprinkling of "aaaah" obstetrics jobs where you get instant results.

It is also incredibly hard work though. And you need to like people, really really like people. Could this be the problem?

Anyway, in response to the OP, we are out there. I'd suggest trying to appeal to the families market - good school nearby? Flexible hours a possibility? That's where most of the experienced vets are disappearing - can you counter that somehow?

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Wren — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:53:15 GMT

[quote user="Eilidh Corr"]

Crikey. As an experienced vet with a small animal bias but who turns out in the night to replace wombs/calve cows etc I had no idea of my own value

Is nobody this daft any more?!

[/quote]

I suspect an increasingly small number, despite rural mixed practice being a really great job.

I was the other way round - an experienced LA/equine vet turning out in the night to do GDVs and decompensated cardiac cases. I gave it up 4 years ago to do purely equine partly based on the realisation that my SA skills just weren't cutting it any more - I was doing too much 'run bloods, stick it on fluids and wait for a proper vet to come along in the morning'. Mind you the other reason for the move out of mixed practice was a very sudden realisation that 13 years of TB testing was probably 12 years too many

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Eilidh Corr — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:45:11 GMT

Crikey. As an experienced vet with a small animal bias but who turns out in the night to replace wombs/calve cows etc I had no idea of my own value

Is nobody this daft any more?!

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:04:21 GMT

Most people use the VR to look for jobs. We've found a good sized colour advert with moderate detail generates interest. Be too stingy and no one will read it. Sell the practice and the area.

It might seem expensive but very much 'worth' it, and that's coming from a Yorkshireman.....

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:32:31 GMT

[quote user="peter chalkley"]

Are we falling down because we are asking for a vet that doesn't exist anymore? (we aren't allowed to just ask for the small animal vet we need!!!!)

Are we just unlucky (or cheap....)?

[/quote]The latter. You are competing within a limited employment marketplace. In his management talks on CITS, James Cronin of Eight Legal who is a specialist in practice management suggested that the only way to attract the best candidates is to offer considerably more than the competition. i.e. circa £100K. A lot of us blanched at that figure and suggested that vets are not only looking for financial reward but job satisfaction comes first and if we started offering salaries like that the client ultimately would have to pay which in a competitive marketplace may be restrictive. So there is a great dilemma: do you offer a cheap service to attract the masses, pay peanuts and get monkeys or do you offer a premium service at a premium rate and afford to pay for the best staff. The caveat was though that your £100K employee has got to justify the salary with a suitable return.

What was interesting was that most of the independent practitioners said that we would not feel we were fulfilling our obligation in a caring profession if we went premium and priced out the ordinary pet owner; the vets/practice managers for large practices/corporates who have the bottom line as the most important consideration thought the opposite.

Food for thought.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Kate Richardson — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:10:32 GMT

[quote user="peter chalkley"]Essentially we can mould the job around the best candidate![/quote]

I think that is a very important fact to state in your advert. Flexibility is key these days. (as long as it applies to all employees obviously)

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

peter chalkley — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:17:51 GMT

Thanks for the replies.

I think the draw them in and weed them out approach might be best.

Essentially we can mould the job around the best candidate!

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Nicola Cole — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 23:05:00 GMT

I would second what Stephanie said about current struggle to attract experienced vets and also trying to get an experienced small animal vet who is willing to be on a mixed rota may be a struggle. If people want to do mixed work they would generally want to do mixed during the day as well so they stay familiar with large animal work.

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Stephanie Wellings — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:44:15 GMT

Experienced vets seem to be fairly hard to find all over so you aren't the only one struggling, and lots of people have said they don't get the desired response even with expensive/large circulation adverts, so some are trying things like networking/stands at congresses etc.

one thing from your post though, if you expect the new vet to be mostly small animals/consulting, your ideal candidate might be put off by the on call as they don't want to see a large animal emergency that they won't be confident with - so thinking about how your job would appeal to potential candidates (or saying in the ad that it can be tailored to suit) might be good

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Seadna — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 18:33:49 GMT

Hi peter chalkley. As someone who has just started looking for a job I can tell you that the over-descriptive and complicated advertisements that explain the job in minute detail can sound a little bit intimidating and maybe even a little bit anal. If you tried a more general advert to get the CVs submitted, and then weed out the unsuitable or uninterested candidates with a follow-up pro-forma email, would you have more luck?

Just a thought :)

RE: (2nd) Best place to advertise for good experienced vets

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 17:58:15 GMT

[quote user="peter chalkley"]Clearly vetsurgeon.org is the best place to advertise for good experienced vets...........[/quote]

Well, kind of you to say, but I am realistic about our position, which is 'relative newcomer'.

Whenever I get talking to an advertiser, which is quite frequently, I always ask for feedback about how their advert has performed, and it is quite mixed. Some people delighted. Some get little or no response. Whenever someone says they've had a bad response, I always ask what response they have had if they advertised elsewhere, and the answer is invariably diddlysquat (which surprises me, because I expect the incumbents to perform better, given that they've been at it longer and charge an awful lot more for adverts which last half as long).

Anyway, I guess the main factors affecting response (and I know this is stating the obvious) are, in no particular order:

Supply
Readership of the website on which you're advertising
Job location
Job specs (like OOH)
Quality of the advert (illustration, copy etc.)

To that, I would add the degree to which you use social media to circulate your advert beyond the readership of the place you advertised it.

Anyway, my objective is to be:

[quote user="peter chalkley"]the best place to advertise for good experienced vets[/quote]

and there is a helluva lot of work going on behind the scenes to make sure that happens.

My research last year found that the majority of vets look online for jobs these days. So that is where we have been focussing our efforts. I've just invested in a huge piece of programming designed to improve our search engine visibility. I can't really say too much about it (commercially sensitive), but it's been three months in the making, it's already partially installed, and it's already starting to have an effect. We expect to complete the work this week.

[quote user="peter chalkley"]we have toyed with the idea of making a really lame video to sell it better, but I don't know if I want the candidate that responds to that.....![/quote]

Um, why make a lame video? Why not make a good video?! You might not like the example I made for Macqueen using just a mobile phone: (see: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/uk/general/f/6/t/25600.aspx), but even if you just do a silent practice tour (using a gimbal), it opens you up for more pageviews and shares on things like facebook.