Chris Packham

RE: Chris Packham

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:52:28 GMT

Cyprus is also guilty when it comes to slaughtering songbirds.

RE: Chris Packham

Bob Russell — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:03:16 GMT

Apparently he has been cleared of the assault charge!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39652901

RE: Chris Packham

Jo Dyer — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:47:06 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"](Wynne would be well into this discussion!)[/quote]

Yes, I did feel the spirit of Wynne was with me when I wrote my post; narrowly avoided being really strident

RE: Chris Packham

Bob Russell — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:42:33 GMT

Malta has already been sent to court over this whole crazy practice. Many of the birds are on the red list and there can be no justification for an EU country (or any other) allowing this practice to continue.

Chris Packham has found, as have others in the past, that the local authorities are supporting this practice as probably will the courts.

There was a referendum on hunting in Malta that narrowly went in the favour of the hunters.

Sooner or later people are going to realise that a referendum is a dangerous weapon to use!

(Wynne would be well into this discussion!)

RE: Chris Packham

Jo Dyer — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:28:19 GMT

[quote user="Danny Chambers"]

Chris Packham charged in Malta due to confrontation

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/19/chris-packham-charged-in-malta-after-confrontation-with-bird-hunters?CMP=share_btn_twl

[/quote]

Good for him! I didn't know that shooting of migrating birds went on in Malta, so at the very least he is raising awareness of a shocking situation.

RE: Chris Packham

Danny Chambers — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:35:18 GMT

Chris Packham charged in Malta due to confrontation

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/19/chris-packham-charged-in-malta-after-confrontation-with-bird-hunters?CMP=share_btn_twl

RE: Chris Packham

Iain Richards — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:31:09 GMT

Better to grow trees on that and remove the wooly parasites (is there an "sarcasm" icon?

RE: Chris Packham

Danny Chambers — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:08:49 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Pic 1

[/quote]

Lovely stone wall.

RE: Chris Packham

Bob Russell — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:04:36 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

We spend our evenings on a vet forum. None of us are cool.

[/quote]

Some of us have more to do in the evenings than be on a vet forum!

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:51:53 GMT

We spend our evenings on a vet forum. None of us are cool.

RE: Chris Packham

David Mills — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:03:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="David Mills"]They scream amateur photographer,[/quote]

Yea, I'm a professional vet. I took them out of my car window with my phone.

[/quote]

Even so...could have added a snapchat filter (yeah I'm ) at least

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:52:47 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]They scream amateur photographer,[/quote]

Yea, I'm a professional vet. I took them out of my car window with my phone.

RE: Chris Packham

David Mills — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:42:46 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

2 pictures I took this afternoon with this thread in mind. Sorry for multiple posts but the pictures were on my phone and I can't seem to upload 2 attachments.

[/quote]

They scream amateur photographer, but, artistic snobbery aside, people would do well to read James Rebanks's book A Shepherd's Life. Thoughtful and insightful.

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:19:32 GMT

2 pictures I took this afternoon with this thread in mind. Sorry for multiple posts but the pictures were on my phone and I can't seem to upload 2 attachments.

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:09:03 GMT

Pic 2

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:06:47 GMT

Pic 1

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:03:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]we're not necessarily talking about growing wheat here, one of the magic ingredients for the 'veggie' beef was clover. Plenty of that on most grazing pasture I'd have thought![/quote]

Again, you don't seem to understand the issues. I work in the Yorkshire Dales. A lot of the higher land is moorland with very acidic soils, clover won't grow in acidic soil. All that does grow is heather and coarse grass. The only things that live up there are sheep and grouse. Lots of land that you can't put a tractor or landrover on. The land has no other use than sheep farming.

If you just farm sheep then with time the land becomes overburdened with parasites. To help we rotationally graze animals - this is where cows come in. The two species are very complimentary.

I don't have figures to hand but a large proportion of Great Britain is mountain and moorland. What do you suggest those areas do that can't grow anything?

People think that the countryside looks like it does because that's how nature made it. That's so far from the truth - it's a very managed environment. Without a thriving agricultural industry the countryside would be a very different place.

Enjoy your steak

RE: Chris Packham

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:52:36 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]What % of the land is suitable for arable? None of where I practice![/quote]we're not necessarily talking about growing wheat here, one of the magic ingredients for the 'veggie' beef was clover. Plenty of that on most grazing pasture I'd have thought!

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I want to eat cows and sheep and pigs and drink cows milk and I will continue to do so.[/quote]I am no vegan and like eating meat as much as the next man but to produce meat for the ever increasing world population will become unsustainable and more CO2 is produced by meat production than all the cars, planes and power stations in the world put together. I don't want to stop driving my car either but if I want to live in a sustainable world with a stable climate we have to start thinking about this now.

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I thought more of you Martin Atkinson [/quote]Oh thanks.

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]PS - the 1 star was me[/quote]I thought more of you Michael Woodhouse.

RE: Chris Packham

Bob Russell — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:30:01 GMT

Insect protein is already a feature of many cultures. Rather worse for drink, I went to a retired teachers house in a Thai village. Thought the peanuts tasted a bit odd! Turned out they were beetles! Not a taste I would enthuse about but not objectionable as such!

For the so called developed world I suspect they will need to be converted to something that looks a little more 'traditional'!

Locusts and crickets are OK deep fried but avoid the water bugs if you venture to Thailand - they are gross!

RE: Chris Packham

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:28:00 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

No need to worry about badgers then, they can lead a happy life in the woods again and farmers can all become arable.

Sounds like the future to me.

[/quote]

Have you ever left your suburban bubble on that bike of yours?

What % of the land is suitable for arable? None of where I practice!

I want to eat cows and sheep and pigs and drink cows milk and I will continue to do so. Not something mucked about with in a lab with unknown risks.

Badgers are evil little fuckers anyway - Wind in the Willows seemingly made the public stupid.

Incidentally if you shot every cow in Great Britain tomorrow the badger population would remain riddled with TB, so not a very happy life for them either.

I thought more of you Martin Atkinson

PS - the 1 star was me

RE: Chris Packham

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:23:18 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]I guess we could house everything and zero graze (that works to dramatically reduce cases) but that's the American way and that is intensive. [/quote]Interesting articles in the papers over Easter. One was talking about substitute beef products made in the laboratory/factory from vegetable matter which have cracked the objection to veggie burgers not tasting like the real thing, and one about production of insect protein on an industrial scale. Either would use a fraction of the environment that meat production does, lead to less destruction of virgin habitat and reduce global CO2 emissions by way over half while allowing more re-forestation to suck out the remaining CO2 from fossil fuels. No need to worry about badgers then, they can lead a happy life in the woods again and farmers can all become arable.

Sounds like the future to me.

RE: Chris Packham

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:12:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Substitute 'intensive farming' with over-grazing and over-development of land, large herds on big farms with destruction of the natural habitat. The badgers would piss off into woodland away from the pasture if they could find any![/quote]

Fair point, may be a reason why Scotland is TB free. Incidentally it is one of the reasons for the over zealous TB restrictions in England as even with pre and post movement testing the thought of an undisclosed carrier reaching Scotland was unthinkable for the powers that be. (Though cow to cow transmission is very rare, but does happen)

However although badgers live in woodland they love earthworms (under cow pats) and maize, and trying to keep them out of pasture is impossible. One case I dealt with the only way to keep them out of the maize clamp was lay electric netting on tyres, the critters travel 3km at night simply to forage.

TB in badgers was 'discovered' in 1973, who knows how long these 'super excreters' have been hiding TB.

I guess we could house everything and zero graze (that works to dramatically reduce cases) but that's the American way and that is intensive.

Neil

RE: Chris Packham

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:36:19 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]So that's why young fit cattle at grass during the summer define the majority the TB outbreaks, whilst intensively housed cattle hardly get it, even in the presence of cattle that subsequently became a slaughter house case.[/quote]I never mentioned intensively housed cattle. Substitute 'intensive farming' with over-grazing and over-development of land, large herds on big farms with destruction of the natural habitat. The badgers would piss off into woodland away from the pasture if they could find any!

RE: Chris Packham

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:57:31 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The idiots are the ones who don't recognise that bovine TB is the result of intensive farming practice.[/quote]

So that's why young fit cattle at grass during the summer define the majority the TB outbreaks, whilst intensively housed cattle hardly get it, even in the presence of cattle that subsequently became a slaughter house case.

Thanks Martin, 11 years wasted investigating TB outbreaks for me then

Neil

RE: Chris Packham

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:30:28 GMT

[quote user="Kara Gibson"]

As an aside, Mike Martin, I thoroughly enjoyed your lectures at BSAVA!

[/quote]He is a brilliant, funny and straightforward speaker and always very approachable. I would put him and David Church as the most entertaining speakers this year. There's never any danger of falling asleep in their sessions.