RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 03 Apr 2017 07:43:51 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]If you can suggest some specific measures that could be taken to further encourage engagement I'm sure everyone would be receptive. [/quote]

It might be stating the obvious, but engagement, like all communication, is a two-way thing. Here we are on the single largest veterinary forum and you (to your credit) are one of a risibly small proportion of candidates actually engaging with the members. Regrettably, the direct questions that I have posed to you (I really do want to understand why the first ADR scheme failed and why following failure, we are doing it again) remain unanswered. You are not alone in that.

Most of what is done in Belgravia House is well-intentioned and much of it is good. But some of it is appalling and a lot of it happens according to an agenda that is driven apparently independently of the members or the elected council. I have reviewed the candidates statements over the years and I keep abreast of RCVS news but, for example, at the time it happened I saw no sign of reaction to the CEO's appalling "dysfunctional" speech, and subsequently, no sign of anyone questions why nearly five years after the CEO declaring his "first rate regulator" aspiration, we have an incoming President headlining HIS aspiration for a fear-free process.

Similarly, the ADR project seems to have been introduced by the back door (if I am wrong, tell me and point me to the evidence). Finally, the evolution of PIC into a "Lower Court" as Arlo describes it (but "Kangaroo Court" is better - check the definition!) is a horrible: unjust and dangerous. It is an important change in direction that I did not see presaged in a single candidate statement and one that I haven't seen scrutinised or discussed anywhere.

There is an unpleasant institutional arrogance in [small but key] parts of our College that is poisoning much of The College's work. This is exemplified by the regular overlooking of the fact that that the "M" in MRCVS stands for "Member" - we are not merely "RFPs" or stakeholders.

That, more than anything, I think undermines any attempts to "engage".

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:16:13 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]

The CEO recognises how dysfunctional RCVS is and was.

The Councillors don't

[/quote]

"Dysfunctional" is how your leader tells it to a non veterinary audience so I suppose there's possibly another version for the profession. As for the self-awareness, then you may be in a minority of one.[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]They know that the profession can't see the point of engaging at Election time, yet do nothing about it. [/quote]

[/quote]

My point wasn't about you. There are others you know. (shaking of head)[quote user="Thomas Witte"]There is a larger pool candidates this year, suggesting greater engagement and it seems like there will also be a very positive uptick in voter numbers.[/quote]

Let's just wait and see whether we reach the dizzy heights of 20% and that , special Brexit considerations aside, it remains greater than 15%.[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

If you can suggest some specific measures that could be taken to further encourage engagement I'm sure everyone would be receptive. Merely repeatedly pointing out that engagement is not what it might be is not a solution (although I admit it is necessary).

[/quote]

[Sigh] Well doc, I've been making them for years to Presidents and the CEO. They've been aired on this site as well so if you want them then contact me off list[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]You can't get near it, because it's so difficult to get to. [/quote]

This is just simply incorrect.

[/quote]

I meant geographically[quote user="Thomas Witte"]Every member of Council that I have worked with is very prepared to receive input into their RCVS work, through various channels.[/quote]

And they would be which official RCVS channels exactly? I ask because this is an aspiration in the next Strategic Plan rather than anything current.

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

Council meetings are open to the members, minutes are published and increasingly RCVS Executive and Council members are available for direct conversations at events around the country, including conferences, roadshows and Council meetings outside London.[/quote]

Is there room at meetings?

As for direct access then contact me off list.

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]There is this current obsession with branding at RCVS. Global branding - what's in it for us? [/quote]

Without clear recognition of what an organisation is, what it does and what it believes in, the value of any output risks being lost - this is true of the RCVS as much as it is of any organisation, and with the ready availability of information of all sorts, it is perhaps more important than ever. In this day and age I'm afraid that having a 'brand identity' that is easily recognised is a necessary element of being trusted and having output that is credible. The PSS, Advanced Practitioner Status, CertAVP, Specialist Status, MindMatters and VetFutures are all programmes that come with the RCVS badge, and without strong brand recognition that badge, and the work, risks becoming less authoritative.

[/quote]

Yes, so I can see what's in it for RCVS. So what's in it for us, the ones paying for it?

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]Where is the willingness, the innovation, the cojones to engage with and trust the trustworthy as measured by RCVS?[/quote]

I'm not sure what this means - can you be a bit more specific?

[/quote]

Where is the will and the manifestation of the will to build credibility with and show trust in the profession? Where is "Our College" and this time I don't mean geographically?.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

thwitte — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 12:08:29 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

The CEO recognises how dysfunctional RCVS is and was.

The Councillors don't

[/quote]

That's simply not true. Dysfunctional is a strong word, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that the RCVS is perfect, and most of us are very prepared to face up to shortcomings as they are identified, either current or historical. To me Council is about appropriate checks and balances on the executive, and this is a role I take very seriously.

[quote user="J G Wray"]They know that the profession can't see the point of engaging at Election time, yet do nothing about it. [/quote]

I saw the point four years ago when I stood for election and was elected as one of the youngest ever members of Council, with no previous involvement. Since then several other younger members have also stepped forward, providing very valuable input. A balance of new and more established members of the profession on Council is vital to ensuring we can move forward without revisiting too much that which has gone before.

There is a larger pool candidates this year, suggesting greater engagement and it seems like there will also be a very positive uptick in voter numbers. If you can suggest some specific measures that could be taken to further encourage engagement I'm sure everyone would be receptive. Merely repeatedly pointing out that engagement is not what it might be is not a solution (although I admit it is necessary).

[quote user="J G Wray"]We all pay our dues for a licence to practice, yet that fee gives us no say in how it is spent beyond the Statutory requirements. [/quote]

All members can put themselves forward for election to Council. My experience of recent activities has been that the RCVS is very prepared to reach out to the profession, and more importantly listen to the response. A great deal of effort is put into detailed analysis of the responses to consultations such as the 24:7 review, MindMatters, VetFutures and recently telemedicine. It is difficult to imagine a process that would allow every member to be consulted on every decision that is taken, but if you can suggest an alternative means by which contributions can be sought, I'm sure everyone would be receptive.

[quote user="J G Wray"]You can't get near it, because it's so difficult to get to. [/quote]

This is just simply incorrect. Every member of Council that I have worked with is very prepared to receive input into their RCVS work, through various channels. Council meetings are open to the members, minutes are published and increasingly RCVS Executive and Council members are available for direct conversations at events around the country, including conferences, roadshows and Council meetings outside London.

[quote user="J G Wray"]There is this current obsession with branding at RCVS. Global branding - what's in it for us? [/quote]

[quote user="J G Wray"]Where is the willingness, the innovation, the cojones to engage with and trust the trustworthy as measured by RCVS?[/quote]

I'm not sure what this means - can you be a bit more specific?

[quote user="J G Wray"]"Book of Mormon"[/quote]

I'll leave the comparisons to you JG - I can't say I recognise them! Hope you enjoyed the musical, though!

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 10:17:35 GMT

There is this bizarre thing that happens at RCVS.

The CEO recognises how dysfunctional RCVS is and was.

The Councillors don't and some of them were there for a very, very long time.

There's no objectivity by these Councillors, no acceptance, no willingness to admit to shortcomings. It's just bizarre and all from those who have looked at the profession, whilst on Council, and mainly the negative aspects of the profession, the complaints, the problems with education, the mental health issues and found their work to be good.

They know that the profession can't see the point of engaging at Election time, yet do nothing about it. They acknowledge disquiet at best and fear at worst with their organisation and simple exhort everyone not to be afraid. It's just bizarre.

After the scandals the closest the RCVS came to an apology for their mismanagement of the Registrar and the overspend was regret expressed by President Davies to BVA Council that everyone was upset. It's just bizarre.

We all pay our dues for a licence to practice, yet that fee gives us no say in how it is spent beyond the Statutory requirements. It's just bizarre

The organisation itself is constantly telling us to watch out for loss of self-regulation, yet there are no signs that anyone is remotely interested in doing so. It's just bizarre

There is a bubble around RCVS, part of the Westminster bubble, which distorts reality. You can't get near it, because it's so difficult to get to. You have a right of audience once a year for an hour at the AGM, but none otherwise. The RCVS is just bizarre.

There is this current obsession with branding at RCVS. Global branding - what's in it for us? The Vet Futures brand, for it is nothing more and having meetings and doing surveys and research is nothing more than building a background to a brand - what's in it for us? This is bizarre behaviour.

Where is the willingness, the innovation, the cojones to engage with and trust the trustworthy as measured by RCVS? It's just bizarre.

I've just seen the "Book of Mormon" and in this satire there is a number about how the Mormon characters, outstandingly polite and good people have a switch, to switch off inappropriate thoughts and unpleasant things. It could be the RCVS Councillor trick:

[ELDER MCKINLEY]
I got a feeling
That you could be feeling
A whole lot better then you feel today
You say you got a problem
Well that's no problem
It's super easy not to feel that way

When you start to get confused
Because of thoughts in your head
Don't feel those feelings!
Hold them in instead

Turn it off, like a light switch
Just go click!
It's a cool little Mormon trick!
We do it all the time
When you're feeling certain feels
That just don't feel right
Treat those pesky feelings
Like a reading light

And turn 'em off
Like a light switch, just go BAP!
Really, whats so hard about that?
Turn it off!

[ELDERS]
Turn it off!

[ELDER CHURCH]
When I was young my dad
Would treat my mom real bad
Every time the Utah Jazz would lose
He'd start a-drinking
And I'd start a-thinking
How am I gonna keep my mom from getting abused?

I'd see her all scared and my soul was dying
My dad would say to me: "Now, don't you dare start crying"

[ELDER MCKINLEY] Turn it off	[ELDERS]
	Like a light switch Just go flick It's our nifty little Mormon trick
Turn it off
	Turn It Off

[ELDER THOMAS]
My sister was a dancer, but she got cancer
My doctor said she still had two months more
I thought she had time, so I got in line
For the new iPhone at the Apple Store

She lay there dying with my father and mother
Her very last words were "Where is my brother?"

[ELDER CHURCH]	[ELDERS] Turn it off
Yeah!
	Bid those sad feelings adieu
The fear I might get cancer too

[ELDER MCKINLEY] When I was in fifth grade I had a friend, Steve Blade	[ELDERS] Oooh, Steve Blade
He and I were close As two friends could be	We could be close
One thing led to another And soon I would discover	Wow
I was having really strange feelings for Steve
I thought about us, on a deserted island	We're all alone
We'd swim naked in the sea And then he'd try and...
WOAH! Turn it off! Like a light switch
There it's gone	Good for you!
My hetero side just won! I'm all better now Boys should be with girls That's heavenly father's plan So if you ever feel You'd rather be with a man Turn it off!

[ELDER PRICE, spoken]
Well, Elder McKinley, I think it's okay that you're having gay thoughts, just so long as you never act upon them

[ELDER MCKINLEY]	[ELDERS]
No, because then you're Just keeping it down
Like a dimmer switch On low
	On low
Thinking nobody needs to know!
	Uh oh
[ELDER PRICE] But that's not true!
[ELDER MCKINLEY] Being gay is bad But lying is worse So just realize you have A curable curse
And turn it off	Turn it off Turn it off
Turn it off!

(The ELDERS dance.)

[ELDERS]
Turn it off!

[ELDER MCKINLEY]
Now, how do you feel?

[ELDER PRICE]
The same

[ELDER MCKINLEY]
Then you've only got yourself to blame
You didn't pretend hard enough
Imagine that your brain is made of tiny boxes
And find the box that's gay and CRUSH IT!
Okay?

[ELDER PRICE, spoken]
No, no, I'm not having gay thoughts!

[ELDER CUNNINGHAM, spoken]
Alright! It worked!

[ELDERS]
Yay!
Turn it off, turn it off
Turn it off, turn it off
Turn it off, turn it off
Like a light switch just go click (click click!)
What a cool little Mormon trick! (trick trick!)
We do it all the time!

[ELDER MCKINLEY] When you're feeling certain feelings	[ELDERS]
That just don't seem right	Don't seem right
Treat those pesky feelings Like a reading light	A reading light
Turn it off	Like a light switch on a cord Now he isn't gay anymore

[ELDERS]
Turn it, turn it, turn it, turn it
Turn it, turn it, turn it, turn it
Turn it

[ELDER MCKINLEY]
Turn it off!

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 09:50:49 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Why would we want to accept Mr. Stace's word? Make the case.

[/quote]

I don't need to after all the President says so:

[quote user="Chris Tufnell BSc(Hons) BVMS MRCVS"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Can we believe the CEO?

[/quote] ....Yes, he's one of the most credible people I've ever met.[/quote]

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 16:45:52 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Make the case[/quote]

Why would we want to accept Mr. Stace's word? Make the case.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:10:51 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]Down to earth sensible candidate next RCVS president in the making.[/quote]

Hmmm ambition as well.

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]We will lose three very experienced Council members this time around so having a top clinician and surgeon like Tom on council with his broad range of xperience is a no brainier for me.[/quote]

My thinking is that we've got recommendations for Dr Witte from those who were part of the time covered by Mr Stace's comments:

"..Another Nick, Nick Stace of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS), found distrust, dysfunctional governance and little clarity of direction, coupled with low public confidence in the regulator judged out of touch when he arrived as CEO. What he didn’t do was blame anyone for the situation, he accepted it aware that many people he needed to work with had been part of what went on before..."

22nd June 2016.."

and it's as if they were in a different room to him. Why would we want to preserve the status as Mr Stace recorded it and why would we want someone with the imprimatur of those who were in a different room to Mr Stace, at the same time?

Make the case

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Richard Stephenson — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 00:06:25 GMT

Yes I've voted for Tom too.

Down to earth sensible candidate next RCVS president in the making.

We will lose three very experienced Council members this time around so having a top clinician and surgeon like Tom on council with his broad range of xperience is a no brainier for me.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 11:06:50 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"] I prefer to show my support ;whether it helps a candidate or not , who knows.[/quote]

It'll help in a one-vote-way to preserve the status quo because Dr W is seeking re election. Is that what we need?

Einstein had it thus:

"..insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.."

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Alastair Welch — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:55:32 GMT

Dr Witte,

Many thanks for finally getting off the fence. I am glad that you recognise the reach and remit of the college. If only the same could be said of the CEO. Nick Stace had informed me that the college has a "public duty to ensure appropriate redress". I'm not really sure what he means by the somewhat woolly concept of a public duty but in any event it is concerning to say the least that the leader of an organisation fails to properly understand the function of that organisatio. The RCVS is not OffVet but if Mr Stace gets his way, by degrees it will become such.

I wonder if when you next see the CEO you could perhaps disabuse him of his misapprehension.

Many thanks

Alastair Welch

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:07:29 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

Please vote wisely, no pointless protest votes , you are all mature enough and intelligent enough to know this matters with so many candidates standing. the online voting system works excellently.

[/quote]

Did it matter less when there were few candidates standing and no online voting? Was there ever merit in voting unwisely and pointlessly? I only ask because it kind of implies that on other occasions unwise or pointless voting went on, presumably by different people who were neither mature enough or intelligent enough.

I won't be indicating who I support or exhorting others to vote for a candidate of my choice because I think RFPs are mature and intelligent enough to make their own minds up, or more likely simply not bother which may also be the choice of intelligent and mature colleagues in the face of lack of incentive.

[/quote] Good for you but I prefer to show my support ;whether it helps a candidate or not , who knows.

Perhaps my post does sound a little patronising and if any of my mature and intelligent colleagues are genuinely offended I apologise. Once again you have risen to the challenge of responding and ensuring that I reflect upon every word of my post and the error of my ways. I was anticipating some feedback from you and you have not disappointed.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

J G Wray — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:37:52 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

Please vote wisely, no pointless protest votes , you are all mature enough and intelligent enough to know this matters with so many candidates standing. the online voting system works excellently.

[/quote]

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:44:21 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

The range of candidates is pretty wide and I can only see one 'protest' candidate on the list. Not sure how a candidate living overseas can perform the required tasks adequately.

[/quote] I just worry that the temptation to carefully choose who to vote for is followed by a vote to " stick it to the Rcvs " by using a remaining vote for someone who will cause disruption. It will not affect me as I am no longer working but I do care very much about what I still consider to be my profession. I have been in meetings where one vociferous person following a pet agenda holds everything up . I hesitated before posting but feel better for having said my piece and am fully prepared to be red starred and ignored

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:55:05 GMT

The range of candidates is pretty wide and I can only see one 'protest' candidate on the list. Not sure how a candidate living overseas can perform the required tasks adequately.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:48:39 GMT

Thomas has my vote. I worked with him on Standards committee and I recommend him to you as an excellent candidate. Please vote wisely, no pointless protest votes , you are all mature enough and intelligent enough to know this matters with so many candidates standing. the online voting system works excellently.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

thwitte — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:54:05 GMT

Thanks again Alastair, and Thomas. The only sanctions available to the College are the ones related to professional conduct, and therefore revolve around an individual member's continuing registration. I do not believe that the Royal College should be involved in financial redress for complainants. Any permanent ADR solution would need to be impartial (i.e. entirely separate from the RCVS disciplinary process), with any settlement being agreed between the parties through mediation.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:35:50 GMT

[quote user="Alastair Welch"]

Dr Witte,

I am not just talking about ADR (although it forms part of it), what I am asking is where do you see the college's remit beginning and ending. The feeling I have is that it is seeking to slowly but inexorably build its empire and as part of this I am asking whether you believe that the college should involve itself in 'redress' for clients. I am still unclear where you stand.

[/quote]

If I can add to Alastair's question. My understanding of the disciplinary process (PIC, DC, etc.) is that it has nothing to do with client redress. If a complaint (concern) is upheld then appropriate action is taken against the veterinary surgeon or RVN to protect animal welfare in the future, the Royal College cannot compel the defendant to provide any sort of compensation to the claimant, that would be a civil matter and would be dealt with by the defendant's professional liability insurance. Do you think this should be changed? Should the Royal College be involved in redress for the claimant?

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:12:11 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]

Hi Silvia,

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but yes, Arlo emailed all the candidates suggesting that this might be a suitable forum for debate. I did the same four years ago after my previous nomination.

[/quote]

Thanks, Thomas. You did answer what I was wondering.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 12:20:32 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Witte"]It is one of the key principles of any ADR (more specifically mediation) scheme that, if successful, it culminates in a legally binding settlement between the parties.[/quote]

So, the key power and responsibility lies with the person(s) deciding whether or not the case is for the regulator proper or whether it might go to ADR - i.e. whether there is possible SPMC or not. If there is no potential of SPMC then it is not, and never really was, a matter (as defined in law) for the regulator. If what you are saying is true then the "A" in ADR seems rather misleading as in effect the College is piloting a novel dispute resolution service for customer complaints that do not have a component of Professional Misconduct - it is extending its remit beyond professional regulation into consumer satisfaction matters.

There can be no "grey area" here - if a matter involves potential professional misconduct then it is a matter for a professional regulator and if not, it doesn't. I remain fearful of the ADR scheme scooping up cases that subsequently are seen to be more than the "Diverter in Chief" appreciated resulting in a vet going through ADR then being obliged to go round a proper regulatory process again. That will make nobody happy - least of all the client - and will do nothing to enhance the status of our profession.

I do not think that I am alone in seeing this as a detrimental muddying of already clouded waters and I am still keen to learn why the first ADR trial failed.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Alastair Welch — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:14:12 GMT

Dr Witte,

Alastair Welch

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

thwitte — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:03:03 GMT

[quote user="Alastair Welch"]Is that yes or no, or I don't want to answer?[/quote]

It's:

"I would need to see demonstrable value in the scheme before supporting a wider roll-out."

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

thwitte — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:01:24 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]If you are saying that this can't happen with ADR can you point me to where that is written and agreed?[/quote]

It is one of the key principles of any ADR (more specifically mediation) scheme that, if successful, it culminates in a legally binding settlement between the parties. The other key principles being that it is voluntary (both parties should agree to go through the process and who will act as impartial mediator), timely (it should not result in undue delay in resolving the dispute), in good faith and confidential.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Alastair Welch — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:50:23 GMT

Dr Witte,

Is that yes or no, or I don't want to answer?

Alastair Welch

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

thwitte — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:43:41 GMT

Thanks so much for clarifying Alastair. When ADR was first discussed my gut reaction was the same as yours - I was perplexed and felt that there was no remit for the RCVS to be involved in concerns that fall short of professional misconduct. That said, it is my understanding that there is a subset of cases where the boundary is not so clear, and it is these cases that may be usefully resolved by ADR. I therefore supported the trial and await the results with interest. I would need to see demonstrable value in the scheme before supporting a wider roll-out.

RE: RCVS Election voting open! Candidate: Thomas Witte

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:41:27 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

The main question I have for the candidate is what they have done in the last four years to make the vote turn out?

I'm asking about the candidate's value, the difference they are making.[/quote]

No problem with that, whatsoever. Important question to ask.

[quote user="J G Wray"]You've set off at a tangent being baffled by my comment.[/quote]

Nope, I think you'll find it was you that set off at the tangent about personal reward and the morality of personal reward. I was just baffled.