Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:16:02 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Luckily a northerner was in charge of making the tea so it was properly done. [/quote]

Yeah.... when I did " seeing practice" at a VIC there were just such precisely-timed breaks. Coffee I think was 10.50 to 11.00 exactly. If you were a minute late to the break room you didn't get a compensatory minute the other end, and if you were three minutes late you wouldn't get any coffee (you weren't allowed to make it yourself, it had to be done by the lady who made the coffee). The result was that nobody would start any new task after 10.20 and nobody would do anything at all after 10.40. Not an efficient system.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:00:20 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]In the Netherlands (I left in 1977) the absolute untouchable thing was coffee and tea break, and lunch. Nobody would skip it, it was unthinkable to eat a sandwich while going on working. Work stopped at 10 or 10.30 for coffee, 13.00 for lunch and 15.00 for tea, everybody went to the tearoom sat around tables and had a drink for 15 minutes, In those 15 minutes lots of communication and ideas floated and were shared. [/quote]

Damn those patients in the UK not smart enough to be ill outside these hours.

I'm intrigued by the idea of breaking off from an op when the tea bell goes.

[/quote]

When I did EMS at the VLA in Bury St Edmunds as a student they did this. There was a tea klaxon and everything - people downed tools and had 15 minutes having a brew.

Luckily a northerner was in charge of making the tea so it was properly done.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 11:17:59 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]With a bit of organisation, it should be possible to ensure each vet gets a decent lunch break, maybe not all at the same time. Some practices I work at do this very well, others not so, especially if you can't start operating until after morning consults. The trend is to offer longer consulting hours throughout the day. Is it really necessary to book a booster in for 1.20pm?[/quote]

We are a small practice (2 vets) and aim to stop for a tea break at 11am every day, one vet finishes consulting at 11am, the other will have been operating. The timing does slip a bit from day to day, but it would be an unusual day when we don't all stop at the same time for a tea break. It allows time to talk through what has happened in the morning, and social stuff as well, and I think the practice is a much better working environment because of it.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:42:59 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Damn those patients in the UK not smart enough to be ill outside these hours.

I'm intrigued by the idea of breaking off from an op when the tea bell goes.

[/quote]

With a bit of organisation, it should be possible to ensure each vet gets a decent lunch break, maybe not all at the same time. Some practices I work at do this very well, others not so, especially if you can't start operating until after morning consults. The trend is to offer longer consulting hours throughout the day. Is it really necessary to book a booster in for 1.20pm?

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

grumpyoldman — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:24:38 GMT

Total bollocks really .

The most important thing about surgical cases with a high value(well with any value really) is that they are done by someone with experience who is used to doing it and knows what they are doing . So letting a new grad loose with the TPLO saw to "up" his ATV is not going to happen really . Nothing to do with chickens ,its about welfare and avoiding the RCVS crapping down your and their necks. Takes normal people time to get experience, that is either by spending time observing and scrubbing in at the practice level or by going off to follow the yellow brick road with an internship and residency. One depressing thing that I do find annoying sometimes is young people who think its ok to just pounce on someones much loved pet and use it as a learning curve for their first TECA/VBO without reviewing the anatomy and practicing on a charity dog cadaver. They then get out of their depth and need bailing out.

Anyone with any sense either ignores these numbers completely for the first three years or takes them with an enormous pitch of salt.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

J G Wray — Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:41:33 GMT

Damn those patients in the UK not smart enough to be ill outside these hours.

I'm intrigued by the idea of breaking off from an op when the tea bell goes.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:24:14 GMT

Forgot to mention that this also meant a mixing of all ranks around the same table.

Mariette

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:22:33 GMT

In the Netherlands (I left in 1977) the absolute untouchable thing was coffee and tea break, and lunch. Nobody would skip it, it was unthinkable to eat a sandwich while going on working. Work stopped at 10 or 10.30 for coffee, 13.00 for lunch and 15.00 for tea, everybody went to the tearoom sat around tables and had a drink for 15 minutes, In those 15 minutes lots of communication and ideas floated and were shared. I have always missed this in other countries/cultures. Reading a book by Frans de Waal (a Dutch primatologist working for the last 30 years in the US) he mentions too that this is the most important moment/place/thinktank where ideas for experiments are developed and discussed informally. So I concluded that he has kept this Dutch habit in his working place in the US.

Mariette

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:36:58 GMT

I thought it was a really interesting and thought-provoking video, and I guess what I took away from it was the idea that given the same set of skills and abilities, a collaborative team works better than a competitive one.

I know it's anecdotal, and my view is affected by being a moderator, but over the years (particularly on vetnurse), I have heard so many stories about the pecking order in practice, and of staff being (or at least feeling) badly bullied. Sometimes vets feeling bullied by more senior vets. Sometimes vets feeling bullied by nurses. Perhaps more often, nurses feeling bullied by vets or other nurses.

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]However, perhaps we can introduce some of the ideas which have increased productivity in other industries?[/quote]

Like which, specifically? In the video, there was a bit about Idexx's vegetable gardens where employees got to know each other better, fostering helpfulness in the company. I wonder what little things in practice might be done to produce the same effect.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Julie Lavis — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:49:00 GMT

Hi Dinu,

At the risk of a chicken and egg scenario, young vets leave the profession, perhaps one reason is an unpleasant work place, perhaps the unpleasant work place is due to a super chicken culture which perpetuates the unpleasant work environment.

However, perhaps we can introduce some of the ideas which have increased productivity in other industries? Such as social capital, as set out in the video, which may be as simple as recognising that people need time to get to know each other at work so that we build stronger teams?

I do recognise a lot of truth in your detailed second reply, thank you.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

J G Wray — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:03:05 GMT

A Great Welsh poet once performed this, all about happiness. No chickens mind, but possibly more successful as a message here in the UK:

Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that I possess I thank the Lord I've been blessed With more than my share of happiness

To me this world is a wonderful place And I'm the luckiest human in the whole human race I've got no silver and I've got no gold But I've got happiness in my soul

Happiness to me is an ocean tide Or a sunset fading on a mountain side A big old heaven full of stars up above When I'm in the arms of the one I love

Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that I possess I thank the Lord that I've been blessed With more than my share of happiness

Happiness is a field of grain Turning its face to the falling rain I can see it in the sunshine, I breathe it in the air Happiness happiness everywhere

A wise old man told me one time Happiness is a frame of mind When you go to measuring my success Don't count my money count my happiness

Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that I possess I thank the Lord I've been blessed With more than my share of happiness

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:22:02 GMT

Hi Julie, I can see the point of your concerns but I believe the "super chicken" is the only way. But I can see why the rest of the team can feel a lack of fairness if someone cherry picks cases and has a higher ATV but

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]My worry is that as modern managers are encouraged to assess veterinary productivity by an individual's average veterinary transaction (ATV) and bonuses are paid on individual turnover we have an ideal set up for a super chicken scenario.[/quote]

A manager needs to find a way to reward those who will push the business forward. Humans will develop some kind of pecking order in almost all scenarios, even on a Friday night out

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]So if you are the super chicken you cherry pick the surgical list[/quote]

If another vet develops a similar skill in the same practice then there is no possibility to cherry pick. Do the same or do it better and the case will be yours.

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]invoice all the repeat prescriptions [/quote]

Easy, allocate it based on rota. My experience though says that most vets run away from it. At list I did. Boring.

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]Not much fun being a new young chicken in this scenario, [/quote]

No, but this is the same in every aspect of life. A young vet will need to develop his/her skills and this takes time. If the other vets are supresing the young one then it's not a super chicken issue, it's being an asshole issue

[quote user="Julie Lavis"]The second part of the talk suggests alternative scenarios, based on teams with high social capital, and it is these ideas which I found inspiring, which are certainly more people / young vet, friendly.[/quote]

Sounds amazing but can this survive financially? What is a high social capital? We work as a team at my current place but I can not see how we would have a social life together. We do get along great though.

You see, to me it seems that the young vet's problem is not the super chicken but rather working in an unpleasant environment.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Julie Lavis — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 07:41:25 GMT

Hi Dinu,

thanks for for thoughts.

My worry is that as modern managers are encouraged to assess veterinary productivity by an individual's average veterinary transaction (ATV) and bonuses are paid on individual turnover we have an ideal set up for a super chicken scenario. So if you are the super chicken you cherry pick the surgical list and invoice all the repeat prescriptions and hey bingo you have the best ATV and turnover, by suppressing the productivity of your fellow, non super, chickens. Not much fun being a new young chicken in this scenario, especially if your manager is a non vet, who might not even regularly be on site to realise what is happening. Not very likely you will get much chance at more complicated higher earning surgeries.

The second part of the talk suggests alternative scenarios, based on teams with high social capital, and it is these ideas which I found inspiring, which are certainly more people / young vet, friendly.

RE: Happiness - social capital not super chickens?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 11:25:22 GMT

I will apologise in advance for my ignorance but I stopped watching at the end of the chicken experiment. What a ridiculous and inaccurate way of assessing production and behaviour in a farm species.

Quote from their website "Margaret Heffernan observes that it is social cohesion — built every coffee break, every time one team member asks another for help — that leads over time to great result"

I met some lovely people that could not deliver any result on their own. Happiness is fantastic and we should all strive for it but on it's own will not make a business thrive.