#Budget2017

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:20:48 GMT

These non-elected 'civil servants' have the potential to do a lot of damage to all party's.

A hard Brexit will hurt mainland Europe and destroy good relations for years to come.

I am working on the assumption that there will be a punishment for wanting to leave the club. I very much doubt the behaviour would have been similar if France or Germany had decided to leave! Shows just how little respect the UK is held in by other European countries.

RE: #Budget2017

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:29:42 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

Me too. But with Mr Junker recently voicing his intention to, "make Britain suffer so much that no other country will consider leaving". That seems unlikely. Remembering, of course, that Mr Junker in common with members of the commission he heads will never have to face an electorate to answer for that outburst. Being almost completely devoid of any power, the elected MEPs will have little, if any, say at all in the negotiating position that the EU takes or the way in which any discussions proceed.

Worrying indeed that a body of unelected officials are able, without criticism, to promote a negotiating position that is primarily centred upon the continuance of their commission irrespective of any potential damage to Britain, Britons, Europe or Europeans should scare any genuine democrat witless.

RE: #Budget2017

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 23:02:09 GMT

[quote]

Hopefully within the next few weeks the status of EU nationals here and UK nationals in Europe will be clarified. Not before time!

[/quote]

My understanding is that any early deal won't be definitive until negotiations end in a few years or TM chooses 'no deal'.

I hope I'm wrong.

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:34:07 GMT

Most thinking people are already aware that this country needs immigration. My wife is working in a hotel where staffing levels have plummeted. It is no surprise to find that the insecurity is causing people to rethink whether they come or stay here.

If the UK government has any sense people with jobs to go for will continue to be welcomed. It may be some form of work visa will be required but this can be made as easy or difficult as government wishes.

Hopefully within the next few weeks the status of EU nationals here and UK nationals in Europe will be clarified. Not before time!

It may well be that there has to be a general increase in training numbers for nurses and doctors within the UK to reduce the need to poach EU nationals much needed in their home countries. It is a disgrace that we have relied on other countries to train staff needed here.

A lot has to be considered and acted upon. A lot has to change but perhaps that will turn out to be a good thing in the end.

We live in interesting times!

RE: #Budget2017

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 19:48:50 GMT

The crude reality is that Brexit decimates EU immigration will. And the state does not need to pay for the first few years of most immigrants. Most come educated and are net contributors from first day at work. But even if some didnt, it still is cheaper than raising someone here for their complete chilhood.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

We need higher taxes to pay for the increased needs of an ageing population. The NHS needs to be better managed and financed to be able to take better care of us old fogey s especially as I plan to live for a very long time just to spite my children!!

[/quote]

So it is to do with Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

I only hope that taxes are adequate and the most disadvantaged in society don't suffer the consequences of a tax heaven country if that's where we going.

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 12:13:32 GMT

All true but not Brexit spending!

It was stupid to block future tax rises in the way they did! If the economy needs to generate more in tax revenue to deal with issues then so be it.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 12:02:37 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]What needs to be paid for?[/quote]

Spiralling national and consumer debt, and the £50billion interest a year on the former.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The economy is growing, unemployment dropping[/quote]

And - the band played believe it if you like. It is built on the back of increased consumer debt and increased credit card spending - all very well until the next financial crash, which will be a case of when rather than if.

Unemployment is down on the back of forcing folk into low paid, minimum wage, zero hours contract, jobs; where they still have to rely on state benefits to be able to live. Great for the likes of Amazon and Uber, but no useful contribution to the economy or the taxpayer purse.

In the news yesterday, based on figures from the National Office of statistics, there is an increase in children living in poverty, and two thirds of those children are from working families forced into bum jobs.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]We need higher taxes to pay for the increased needs of an ageing population. The NHS needs to be better managed and financed[/quote]

For sure, there needs to be an honest, frank and truthful debate about this. It is going to become/is exponentially expensive, and I guess there is no easy or cheap solution regardless of which political party is in power. I fear that this shower are intent on privatisation though.

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:30:00 GMT

What needs to be paid for?

The Pound was overvalued because the Euro is a basket case. It is now better priced but being played with by the markets.

The economy is growing, unemployment dropping and nobody yet has a clue where Brexit or anything else is taking us.

Blame it on Brexit, lets have a few hissy-fits because we don't like what is happening or go into hysterical meltdown because the BBC say we are all doomed!

The UK is taking a different route to the expected one and it is not clear whether we will be better or worse off in the end.

I have been converted from very mildly pro-EU to totally anti-EU. One day we are all going to be nuked by Brussels, the next it will be a love in!

If the EU had accepted the referendum with good grace and started talking about how everyone can make things work then life would already be more certain. They have decided to be nice/nasty and refuse to talk until Article 50 is invoked.

RE: #Budget2017

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 21:18:53 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Getting rather bored with the idea that these tax increases are to fund Brexit!

[/quote]

Well it would need paying somehow wouldnt it? Have u seen this?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/842161838741696513

... and thats the guy 'in charge' would you believe it..

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:35:39 GMT

No more slippery than any other people trying to govern. To promise no increase in direct taxation was foolish.

Getting rather bored with the idea that these tax increases are to fund Brexit! The rise was to help fund the increased social care needs that everyone knew would happen.

Hammond should have announced a full review of self-employed tax payers to ensure they paid for extra benefits they are getting but also to ensure closer equality to the employed.

The self-employed do get a better deal as they are entitled to a full state pension. They should pay for this but far better would be to improve benefits to bring everyone in line and tax accordingly.

As for local taxation i am a firm believer that as much as possible should be collected and spent locally. I am not suggesting it is possible to do everything locally.

If I am unhappy with local spending habits I can be at the council offices within minutes to attend meetings. Rather different to going to London!

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:55:17 GMT

They made a broad overall promise not to raise direct taxation, and did not specify that it only applied to certain groups or to certain taxes.

Very slippery customers - and one certainly should think twice before buying a used car or a Bulldog from them, or employing them to run one of those parties in a brewery where everyone gets very drunk indeed.

RE: #Budget2017

Linda Filshie — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:46:51 GMT

Letwin was on R4 this morning saying that it (ruling out class 4 NI raises) wasn't what they had intended to promise - just regular old employed people NI and that was only because mean old Labour made them. Well knock me down with a feather - weasel words from a knight of the realm.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:41:12 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]In a way happy with the U-turn. I find it unfair that only some should foot the Brexit bill.[/quote]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39287222

Neither happy or unhappy really, but it does show them in their true colours; they are arrogant and contemptuous and have betrayed the trust in their electorate by blatantly breaking a manifesto promise. Damage is done - it would be akin to stealing money from a friends wallet, then later saying "oops, sorry", putting it back, and expecting to carry on as before as if nothing had ever happened.

RE: #Budget2017

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:17:53 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

And todays tax rise;

Anyone buying a new smaller low emissions car from 1st April is in for a significant rise in VED (Vehicle Excise Duty, car tax disc as was).

For example, at the moment the annual VED on my car is only £20 because I own a low emissions one. Anyone buying the same car now, will see first year VED the same, but all subsequent years it will shoot up to £140, a 7 fold or 700% increase. It seems one of the incentives to buy environmentally friendly cars is being removed. In addition any car costing >£40,000 will a £310 VED surcharge for the first 5 years. Seems a very retrograde move to me.

[/quote]

It's only on new cars registered after April 2017 though. Your existing car's road tax will be the same?

RE: #Budget2017

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 20:03:45 GMT

In a way happy with the U-turn. I find it unfair that only some should foot the Brexit bill.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 18:36:14 GMT

And todays tax rise;

Anyone buying a new smaller low emissions car from 1st April is in for a significant rise in VED (Vehicle Excise Duty, car tax disc as was).

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 18:21:33 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am a firm believer that more tax should be generated locally and less nationally. It allows local decisions to be made locally rather than depending on the 'generosity' of central government.[/quote]

The trouble with this is that there is a massive variation in the amount of tax collected by different local authorities depending on the local populations so there needs to be a way of redistributing it.

[/quote]

I could not see it working at all.

Deprived areas of high density housing with high levels of unemployment and low paid workers, will have a, per capita, lower tax take than more affluent areas, but spending per capita is likely to be greater in terms of welfare and social care. There has to be a vehicle for wealth distribution, and that has to be national taxation.

RE: #Budget2017

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 17:36:44 GMT

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:48:21 GMT

Turbo posting!

I believe this government got in because nobody trusted Labour under Miliband any more than Brown or the laughing clown before him!

Nobody really trusts politicians to do what they say anyway!

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:45:06 GMT

I am a firm believer that more tax should be generated locally and less nationally. It allows local decisions to be made locally rather than depending on the 'generosity' of central government.

I also suspect locally collected tax will get to the place of need more efficiently than going through civil servants in London.

The promise that NI, Income tax and VAT would not change was a pretty stupid one because it leaves relatively few taxes that can be increased. This is likely to lead to a smaller number of people facing greater tax rises.

No reason I can think of why GP services and social care should not be dealt with by local government. Leaving central government to take care of the higher levels of the NHS.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 13:01:51 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Seriously though I think taxation will continue to rise with an ageing population. Plus the NHS won't be able to cope when the younger generation of fatty fat fats hit middle age.[/quote]

Inevitable I would have thought; with a growing number and percentage of ageing folk, fewer as a percentage working, and the every growing number of people in low paid jobs that pay little or no tax - there needs to be an open, frank and honest debate about social care, the NHS, and who and how it is to be paid for.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:56:28 GMT

Hot off the press, Chancellor has done a U turn and NI tax rise for self-employed will now not go ahead.

Nobody likes a tax rise of course, but I did not disagree with the principle of making the system more equal or fairer.

RE: #Budget2017

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:41:10 GMT

What about all the money we will save when no longer part of the EU? ;-)

Seriously though I think taxation will continue to rise with an ageing population. Plus the NHS won't be able to cope when the younger generation of fatty fat fats hit middle age.

RE: #Budget2017

Clive Ansell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 11:35:14 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Just getting funding for an ageing population and topping up local funding for local services.[/quote]

My local authority has had its hand forced because of funding cuts from central government, meaning local taxes have to rise despite being unpopular - it's a through the back door tax rise 2 to 3 times greater than inflation, however it is dressed up. Even with the tax rise we are seeing savage cuts in funding for local amenities such as libraries, as well as care provision for the elderly, disabled and mentally ill. And don't even mention the roads.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I would argue that taxes should have gone up a bit to cover the costs of sorting out social care.

Tax is not automatically bad, unfair taxation is!

[/quote]

I'm inclined to agree, but there needs to be an honest and open debate about taxation and care provision in society. In fact I would welcome a tax rise to see the sick and vulnerable being properly looked after.

What I take exception too, is the hypocrisy of the current government who parade themselves and get elected on the back of low taxation and promises not to raise taxes, and then go ahead and do it anyway. They even make statements during their election campaign that other parties, such as Labour, will raise taxes.

RE: #Budget2017

Bob Russell — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 09:24:00 GMT

Just getting funding for an ageing population and topping up local funding for local services.

I would argue that taxes should have gone up a bit to cover the costs of sorting out social care.

Tax is not automatically bad, unfair taxation is!