How do you cope with childcare?

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

ruths — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 09:58:53 GMT

Do we think it might boil down to some people are inherently less able to see things from another's point of view.

eg I spent many years happily doing Xmas and Easter as I didn't have kids of my own. When I felt my frequent childcare issues were impacting on my job, I ended up leaving it and finding something more child friendly - I think I may have left it a bit late, but inwas constantly trying to sort out care for my quite tricky son. The nanny kept calling in sick. The atrwas trying tonwork, jiggle childcare with my husband and look after a kid with (at that time) undiagnosed autism was immense. my nanny was later diagnosed with gall stones about two weeks after i made her redundant - that didn't feel great either of us. She had no income and no getting a new job and I felt awful letting her down by deciding to stay home all week and do 24hr emergency shifts third weekend.

I've also had the privilege of dragging myself into work when feeling horrifically ill to be greeted by a senior colleague who was then able to nip home to sort out a broken oven

Being a parent doesn't make you l or inconsiderate, in the same way that being a non parent gives you any specific personality traits, in my opinion- and in my experience

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 06:44:42 GMT

All is well Joyce, we had a good laugh about it yesterday, I guess it didn't cause any permanent harm ;-) Glad your youngest was ok! Looking back on these things that seemed so hard to do back in the day and realising that it somehow worked out well anyhow is weird. All the sleepless nights spent, I definitely worried too much and I still do!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 22:43:17 GMT

That's not good Dagmar, I'm pleased to say this didn't happen to mine. Although possibly because I could walk in at any moment from work up the drive. Mind you my youngest decided when he was about 2 to explore the narrow gap between our house and next door. He got stuck. Cue panicked babysitter running to get me. I had visions of the fire brigade arriving and knocking down half my house. The gap was bigger near the back garden than the front. Fortunately with one of us in the front garden encouraging him to creep back he gradually scraped his way out.

We put out a barrier up the same day, it's still there and he's 22 now!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:52:57 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

I frequently used local 16 year olds in the school holidays to help, as I've said before, I was on the same site so that helped, but they were always happy to get the money and enjoyed playing in the garden or house with the children.

[/quote]

So did I and this is what I thought they did. I've just at this moment talked to my now 17yo daughter about it and she told me all about the TV serious the various babysitters preferred and also about the one who liked to watch rather gruesome youtube videos with the little ones (we did find out about this one at the time, our son asked too many questions about beheading techniques).

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:37:47 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I did have one colleague years ago who used "But I have children!" as an excuse for all sorts of skiving. I also had children at the time, made me want to ask if she thought these 3 creatures I had were hamsters![/quote]

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Julie Innes — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:33:41 GMT

As I've said, I had to open my own surgery just to make sure I could accommodate childcare. having my dad still fit and healthy and close by has been a godsend. It would be great if my other half could do his share, but he is armed forces (Royal Navy) so for much of the time I am in effect a single parent. I don't think the kids have suffered too much. My surgery is (deliberately!) at the bottom of the hill from the kids' school. I have been known to run up between ops to collect a poorly child (on one occasion gluing my son's head back together between cat spays!) and to my mind it's no great hardship for them to watch an interesting op (they are all pros at resussing puppies after sections!) rather than sit watching TV.

I've seen it from both sides- most parents I know are pretty committed to the job, many of my staff with kids will bring them to work in school holidays if they can't get childcare, it can be like a youth club downstairs at times! And before I had kids I was happy to help out, as long as it was appreciated, although it rarely came up (I have a theory that vet's kids are healthier due to being brought up with lots of animals!) also, I think having some medical training makes us less likely to rush to the doctors for the slightest sniffle. (I am told no one gets any sympathy in our family unless they have four legs and a tail!) I did have one colleague years ago who used "But I have children!" as an excuse for all sorts of skiving. I also had children at the time, made me want to ask if she thought these 3 creatures I had were hamsters!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 18:39:18 GMT

As far as I understand, there is no hard and fast rule about babysitters in your own home, as long as you are happy they are reliable. The rules apply if you are paying someone to look after your children in their home. And that is more to do with undeclared income for tax reasons!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

ih220 — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 18:22:59 GMT

I've been really interested to read all the views.

I have been on the other side of this too when I was one of the few childless vets in the practice. I had trouble getting time off for a close relative's wedding in the school holidays, and there was never any chance of time off over Christmas for years on end. So I really do sympathise with everyone who feels resentful.

I'm not sure what the rules are about paying a local teenager or similar for regular childcare, (eg 6-8pm once a week) if they are not a registered childminder? If anyone knows, please let me know as I can see this as a possible helpful option once children are out of the baby stage.

I am planning to have number two (not getting any younger) and in the meantime have a very hard think about my career/job plans.

Lots of food for thought on here!

The point about part time RCVS fees mentioned somewhere earlier is a good one I think - £300 a year seems like an awful lot when I am not earning much at all over childcare costs. However as very few practicing vets are probably earning quite as little as I am it probably isn't a big enough market for them to do anything about it. But maybe they could have a category for people who aren't earning over the tax threshold - I know of another professional organisation who does this, presumably because it's easy to prove/check up on compared to basing it on hours worked.

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Tricia Goulden — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:47:40 GMT

Still the loves of my life

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:40:44 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"] they were fantastic, funny & the loves of my life[/quote]

'were' the loves of your life?! And to think I even remembered to get you a card AND present for your birthday this year... this is the gratitude I get.

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Tricia Goulden — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:06:22 GMT

Replying to Anthony Dennison & his experiences. I worked part-time/ did locums until my younger two were rising four & Anthony was rising 6. We had a lot of fun in those pre-school years. From there I worked full-time & just juggled. I dropped them at school in the mornings at 8am ( yes before it opened Ant!) & they caught the bus back to the nearest town where they were picked up & minded until I finished work usually 7pm.We had brilliant chats in the car to & from school & they were fantastic, funny & the loves of my life. I do remember Anthony taking the oxygen mask off when he was recovering from having his appendix out just before his A-levels, glaring at me & saying "I told you I was ill" & passing out again. I can't remember any other illness , they were happy and healthy. I think!!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 21:25:39 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

But it's not the necessarily the travelling or foreign holidays - it's the taking time off to be at home to look after the kids as much as anything else. I literally can't take any time off in half term virtually ever as it's all pre-booked a year in advance. I would absolutely love to visit my parents in Scotland for Christmas but this just isn't an option.

[/quote]

Which is definitely not fair at all!!! Of course you should be able to go and see them, at least every other year or so!
When I still did OOH divided between several practices it was very convenient for them that my family celebrates Christmas on Christmas day UK style (my husband is English) and not on Christmas Eve like people in Germany do - I was always willing to do Christmas Eve ;-)

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Wren — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 08:54:41 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Then of course there's the whole subject of holidays. People with children wanting priority for half term[/quote]

Paying double for accommodation, crowded beaches, lots of teachers, one advantage of having no children However if a few vets in the practice have children......

Neil

[/quote]

That thought crossed my mind as well. Who in their right mind would, apart from few occasions as family celebrations etc., want to travel during school breaks? I never did before I had kids and I'd give an arm and a leg if I didn't have to now! At least in this regard having no children is more of an advantage than a disadvantage IMO. Imagine all employees would want to take time off in May and September - much better traveling times!

[/quote]

I think what this discussion has shown is that there's probably more give and take going on than most people think, on both sides. Oh, and that I've been exceptionally unlucky with my colleagues!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

CatherineThomas — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 05:01:58 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="emma o'connor"]not many families these days can afford for one parent to not work for 4 years or more,[/quote]

Hmm.... I'll don my hard hat now but....that very much depends on whether you are prepared to save up ready for the arrival of children, and then be willing to reduce your outgoings while at home. I think plenty of people manage to have a perfectly good standard of living on one reasonable wage, as long as they are willing to forego some of their luxuries. We all decide where our priorities lie.

(I am in no way saying what someone should and shouldn't do regarding working - I've always been a working mum, job sharing with my husband, and have been happy with my decision. But, nonetheless, we coped on a very small wage compared to what we would have earned if we had remained as employees.)

[/quote]

It's not all about money. In fact i'd probably be better off at the moment if I wasn't working when you consider rcvs fees, vds fees, cpd, taxes, childcare fees etc. But I worked hard to get my certificate, gain advanced practitioner status and build up my exotics business. I didn't want to waste that.

I also know several mums who have gone back to work because although they love their child/children very much they need some time away from them and being someone else other than "mum" so that they can be a better parent when they are with them. There is no shame in that and I believe going to nursery or childminders can actually be quite beneficial for young children. Obviously there is always a balance to be had and it can be tough getting that balance right.

I would also say that of all the parents I have ever worked with they have all gone out of their way to ensure that their children have had minimal impact on colleagues. Yet i've worked with non-parents who were constantly calling in sick with no word of thanks to the rest of us who rallied round to make-up for their abscences.

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

ruths — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 23:10:27 GMT

I spent my first 15 years in practice with no kids

I worked Xmas, Boxing day, Easter Sunday, through school holidays and I stayed late as and when necessary to make sure rhere was enough support for the animals in my care.

I didn't notice anyone with kids take the Micky.

then I had kids and other people took up the slack for a bit.

I had a very tricky kid and struggled to get childcare - it would have been great to rely on grandparents but sadly my mum died when my kids were tiny.

I had a nanny who became ill - she would often ring in sick on the way to work!

it was a nightmare so I gave up a job I loved to stay home for a while. I didn't want to end up with everyone hating me as I was in danger of being unreliable.

My job was the one that allowed that flexibility.

As things straightened out, I went back to work and with the years of experience, I was able to support the younger vets and stay back when necessary to help them with surgery, emergency cases etc.

I did what I could as every level of my career. I would have felt very sad if people judged me at anyoje point. This career is along term one and sometimes things work out so your can cover for people and sometimes not.

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Nicola Cole — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 22:11:48 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

A 9 - 5 practice? Sounds idyllic! (And is also 'normal' working hours, so arranging childcare is likely to be easier anyway!)

[/quote]

My first job in mixed practice (but mainly farm) was 9-5 and usually finished promptly (there were 2 people on call per night as large area covered for farm work and if anything came in towards the end of the day whoever was on call that night picked up the work rather than others running over...). Maybe that's more common for farm/mixed practice (as don't have to run evening consults like you do in small animal practice)? However, i may be completely out of touch with mixed practice hours now as it was quite a few years ago.....

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Iain Richards — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 22:02:59 GMT

Michael said: I don't know if it's a North v South or rural v urban issue but the majority of the child care seems to be left in women's hands in our parts.

Au Contraire. My main role for the last 6 years has been childcare and cook!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Jim Hopkins — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:47:47 GMT

We are in an area where most of the population seems to be retired or don't work 9 to 5, so not as much demand for after work surgeries. often those who can't come during 9 to 5 have family or friends which bring on their behalf. Close communities in rural West Wales...

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:33:01 GMT

A 9 - 5 practice? Sounds idyllic! (And is also 'normal' working hours, so arranging childcare is likely to be easier anyway!)

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Jim Hopkins — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:27:42 GMT

So having just skimmed through this topic I thought I would add some thoughts: first perspective: I am male and have a 5 year old and 3 year old. We have 9 vet practice, 5 of these vets have kids under 10 yrs old. 3 of us males do the school run every day, our mixed practice opens at 9am. Hardest issue is the school run if you get an early emergency. My wife is also a vet but works for APHA, 45 minute drive from home, leaving for work at about 7.45. Leaving an impossible hour. (Oh to point out things are different in Wales- 3 year old in school 4 mornings a week and will be full time the term she turns 4).

Our practice isn't running at breaking point every day so there is capacity to deal with illness, emergencies etc. If we juggle consults or ops or indeed visits most clients understand. vets and indeed nurses need time to follow up cases, read up, clinical audit, study etc and this can be delayed to accommodate illness etc. We generally allow parents to take days off as annual leave.

At the end of the day, we finish at 5, allowing parents an hour to collect kids (nursary/after school club we all use closes at 6 but are understanding if we are a bit late). We have evening surgery on Tuesday and Friday until 6pm and these are done by thrbon call vetMso parents can juggle care If on call (2 vets on call so one in reserve if necessary).

Really there is a lot of five and take, the older vets accept supporting families and younger ones support with expectation that they will be supported when they have a family. We are extremely lucky to have developed a close supportive team willing to muck in for each other.

On a personal note as well; it is more likely that my wife sorts sickness care as easier to leave APHA at short notice as a larger organisation with more capacity.

Oh and would be great if I could work and my wife stay at home but in reality we cannot afford it, vets just don't earn enough, even as a shareholder and director of a practice... student debt, mortgage, practice buy-in, kids etc

Good luck to all parents out there- I would never change back to my life before kids...

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Lucy Travers — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:15:29 GMT

Working and childcare is a real juggle. I have two young children 4 and 6 who are both now at school which makes life slightly easier. I have had to work to keep up with mortagage payments, no extravagant lifestyle. I graduated 2006 with £20,000 student loan my husband with £15,000 (not a vet). I continued on call work when pregnant but had to give it up when I had young children in tears at bedtime when mummy had to go out and see the dog that had been vomiting all day. It's tough, yes it's a choice to have children but every other profession does it. i don't know what other people get but I just got standard maternity pay that barely paid our 100% mortgage on a small 3 bed. Through locum work and now a flexible boss I have managed to get a good balance of seeing my children and progressing with a career. I think a bigger problem in the profession is time off for mental health problems, Brexit and the fact that we have a new grad drop out rate of 30%. when I do shorter days my consults are much better, my performance is definitely increased. Should we all be working a little bit less to increase productivity, I wonder......

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:09:32 GMT

In my experience once you have children life is one long low level guilt trip. You are always chasing your tail and feeling you ought to be somewhere else. If you are at work you feel you should be at home and vice versa. You are always faced with a face painting, cake making , smug , supermum at the school gates and a childless supervet at work while you try to be everything to everybody. you cant do anything spontaneous either at home or at work because you have so many commitments. Just roll with the punches , you'll be doing much better at both than you think you are!

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:47:08 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]the world is a better place now.[/quote]

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:46:01 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Marie - I do think you are being defensive when you have no need to be[/quote]

Probably. After a long day, finishing the evening shift late and rushing like a loon to get home I'm grumpy, knackered and in need of wine!! Fortunately the last one of those issues has been sorted and the world is a better place now.

RE: How do you cope with childcare?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:35:21 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Emergencies happen and we pick up the pieces in these cases but to have to stick around late every night? Something is wrong with the way it is working then.[/quote]

To be fair to David, he does say in his post he understands the need for parents to leave on time- which I think all colleagues do. I think the problem is more related to late notice and prolonged absence than wanting fixed working hours. Wanting to finish on time isn't unique to parents, after all!

Marie - I do think you are being defensive when you have no need to be, when you are obviously the model employee! (no sarcasm intended either!) .Surely you have also seen, though, how some parents will expect others to work around their childcare problems, feeling it is 'their right' to be off as and when they need to be? (And yes, of course this also happens with all employees, not just parents!)

The point of the thread was to find out how people manage to reconcile working and parenting.... and perhaps to discuss when it doesn't work or causes conflict. I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that all working parents are bad employees - that certainly isn't the case. I am a parent too, after all.