Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:53:19 GMT

This amuses ne

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQDd1tkmZ1E

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

J G Wray — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:01:30 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

I prefer this idea:

[/quote]

Are these the first two verses with a chorus of

"Thiiiiiiiingggggs can only ged bedder....."?

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:57:19 GMT

And at the risk of t posting- I totally agree with you that problems with clients can often be related to not finding out what their perspective is and not addressing it (even if that means you say- we can't do that!) and being judgemental.

we have to attend to animal welfare and address issues of neglect and abuse. BUt getting angry and judgemental doesn't help with that. A little (professional) distance and a core of integrity dose in my experience. I take no pleasure in reporting people to police/RSPCA but if it has to be done, I do it. And if I have to talk about welfare, I explain about how the treatment of the pet has not matched legal welfare standards and how I'm compelled to do something about it.

Beats getting cross in my experience.

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:38:35 GMT

I'm not trying to shut Gove, Hunt or Trump down.

if I was, I wouldn't bring in the things they've said. I would refuse to quote them.

I brought their words in to show how it's important to hear what people say.

The link that I've posted is a anarchist philosopher and critic of the notion of experts and professionals. I brought it in to provide balance.

I wonder if you misunderstood my motives here.

I called that statement arrogant as i think it does what JG talks about in his original post. It ridicules and shuts down the other side.

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:16:31 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]I think that was quite an arrogant thing to say.[/quote]

How??

[quote user="ruths"]our thinking and reasoning by listening to questions and responding to challenges with integrity and honesty than trying to shut the other side down.[/quote]

Unless the "other side" is Gove, Hunt or perhaps Trump??

In such discussions, "we" is used frequently. The question, "By whom, and how, is the "we" defined?" seems important.

I think that a lot of the trouble between vets and clients comes from the vet being judgemental (passively or actively) about their client and their actions/inactions.

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:50:56 GMT

It's about balance isn't it. Once a vet starts thinking the client is the enemy they are doomed to loathe consulting. Most clients are great but we always remember the ones who give us pain.

As soon as someone tries to police thought it always goes too far the other way. As my dad always told me, if you go along expecting life to be fair you're going to be disappointed

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:50:42 GMT

It's interesting to think that we once believed in a substance called phlogiston; that the earth was flat; and now we have to consider dark matter and dark energy. Science is a developing field and what we know and what we don't know don't always match up. So, as much as I love Brian Cox, and believe me, I do, I think that was quite an arrogant thing to say.

I think it's important to recognise we learn about our thinking and reasoning by listening to questions and responding to challenges with integrity and honesty than trying to shut the other side down.

back to JG's point

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:42:21 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="ruths"] having rhe right to have ones voice and experiences listened to and considered by other parties[/quote]

I prefer this idea:

[/quote]

I think you need to check your privilege there

(I'm joking)

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:40:31 GMT

The concept of a profession and how we view experts is also interesting

Gove, at the time of the referendum 'I think we've all had enough of experts'

Hunt, when discussing the health service and who died on what day (and who is to blame for those deaths) -I paraphrase-' I'm just interested in the results of these studies. Im not interested in the methods and methodology- I'm just interested in the results.' this was delivered without a hint of irony.

As was the comment that ' doctors are here to treat patients, their job is not about looking at information, evaluating it and then choosing a course of action.' He said this tinjustify assertion that the junior doctors didn't actually understand the contract the gvmnt was trying to impose

So, on one hand, we have a healthy disregard for experts and professions that may be seen as wilfully ignorant.

and on another, we have men who self identify as gay women getting very upset becuause lesbians wont have sex wth them- due to the fact that that they have a penis.

JG, come and look at intersectional feminism. It is a riot!

oh, and the other side of the professionalism debate- a really interesting piece here https://www.uvm.edu/~asnider/Ivan_Illich/Ivan_Illich_Disabling_Professions.pdf

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:31:57 GMT

[quote user="ruths"] having rhe right to have ones voice and experiences listened to and considered by other parties[/quote]

I prefer this idea:

RE: Self pity, toxic victimhood and tone policing

ruths — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:13:02 GMT

I agree.

But I think there's a subtle difference between having rhe right to have ones voice and experiences listened to and considered by other parties - which is an entirely healthy part of democracy

and

the need to shut down somebody else's point of view which is abolsutly the act of opression.

we all have to accept that our points of view may be challenged qithout getting our undergarments twisted