Wynne

RE: Wynne

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:35:23 GMT

And at risk of turbo posting ( sorry Arlo) , I'm glad we are still talking about her and maybe that memory of her strong feisty personality and her taking of her life will help other people think about their own lives and seek help sooner rather than later.

RE: Wynne

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:31:00 GMT

For Wynne being a vet was her life and vocation and if she lost her practice at 63 due to financial problems then it must have seemed a very black outlook. I am certainly not saying it was the only reason , and of course her personality and mental state were integral to her decision, but I do respect her wish to have her last letter on record blaming the tax man as she clearly felt besieged and could not see a way out other than the one she sadly took. I know it is far more complex than simply finance but who are we to argue with her reasons now ? It probably gave her some small comfort to blame them in writing.

RE: Wynne

Bob Russell — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:49:22 GMT

Nobody is suggesting tax pressures justify suicide!

There is a more detailed (and more sad) description:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/vet-who-took-life-left-13220279

Someone juggling everything, going to the bank daily, trying to keep going with a much loved job and business must be desperate. Logic says there is a way round all these pressures but add depression and isolation to the equation and you have a recipe for disaster. Tax bills often do not reflect cash available to spend on life!

A fiercely independent individual with a limited support network is all too vulnerable.

RE: Wynne

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:28:00 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I don't believe that the tax pressure is somehow a justification of Wynne steps to take her life. [/quote]I don't think anyone is suggesting it was the only reason for one moment Francisco but it was maybe the final straw that broke the camel's back.

Reading between the lines: single all her life, no family, few friends, living in a basement flat behind her small unprofitable practice, over-focused on animal welfare, siege mentality, slightly paranoid, extreme social and political views etc all add up to both the reasons why she could not afford to pay her taxes and bills and why her mental state was such that when the crunch came she could not cope.

I have on occasions when faced with a potentially overwhelming problem thought that suicide may be a way out. Don't call the Samaritans just yet though before I add that my mental state is such that I would not seriously consider it as I believe we all think like this occasionally same as we can all think of someone we could murder and we would never carry it out, but if someone has mental illness and under extreme stress it can become a realistic and then the only option in their minds.

RE: Wynne

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:54:13 GMT

I don't believe that the tax pressure is somehow a justification of Wynne steps to take her life. You might not agree with my analysis but I feel that this is the wrong approach here.

Wynne was a caring vet, that's no doubt. But she was also a victim of this epidemic. Many many people are in debt nowadays and struggle but they don't take their lives.

Is it that our profession is so demanding in terms of how we are being perceived by others, socially, to the point that we do not/can not accept a black mark in our lives?

I'm sorry for taking my gloves off in here, but we do need to start talking openly about this. Perhaps not in this thread, I accept, but I firmly believe Wynne's case is not unique.

If a vet friend takes his/her life because they couldn't handle a complain mentally, should I blame the complain, the social pressure that makes having a complain unacceptable or the shortcomings of the profession to make him/her mentally prepared?

RE: Wynne

Bob Russell — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:28:43 GMT

Turnover is vanity but cash flow is king!

We have always managed to juggle finances to pay tax but there were years where things were very close!

I have to admit that now we are back to having supportive accountants I am happy to let them take some of the worry from my shoulders! Still up to me to do my job and up to them to help me balance the books and make a profit!

I still think it is fantastic that Wynne's presence was felt at the inquest and it did bring us all a bit of a smile here despite the tragic events!

RE: Wynne

Jo Dyer — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:15:11 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I guess he picked up on it from the BBC News story here. Must say, Wynne's letter to the coroner brought a wry smile to my face. Very Wynne. [/quote]

Quote from the BBC news report: 'she placed the needs of her animals before her own personal interests......and always said the welfare of the animals was paramount'.

That is indeed the Wynne we 'knew' and loved.

Animal welfare is important, obviously. But....vet welfare is at least equally important, and I would say more so. Unless we look after the carers (i.e. ourselves, individually and collectively), then the carers cannot look after the cared-for. My medic friends 'get' this much more than vets seem to.

RE: Wynne

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:06:08 GMT

February was always a terrible month for cash flow in practice , big bills, quiet days. I am sorry that I assumed Wynnes reference to tax collection was about her parents estate , not her current situation. Practice can be a lonely and stressful place especially if you are a great vet in practice but not good on the financial front and it is too easy to fall into the trap of working 24/7 but barely breaking even . I do hope if anyone else is out there is struggling financially or mentally they take Wynne's experience as a prompt to get help.

RE: Wynne

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:18:54 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]When I was self-employed the pressure in January could become much greater than at any time of year.[/quote]It is, from January to March as its a quieter time of the year for income but there's a VAT payment due and lots of other annual expenditure seems to be due as well. I've never been in such a position that I could not move funds around a bit and I never get lulled into a false sense of wealth when my bank balance is very healthy in the Autumn!

As sole charge surrounded by corporates and cheap practices I struggle to see more than 10 cases a day sometimes only 2-3. Income fluctuates greatly but I charge London prices high quality veterinary practise so still make a very good living from it and have accumulated adequate savings. I wonder how much Wynne's failure to achieve a good income was due to her feeling sorry for clients and not charging realistic fees and how much to the economic reality of her catchment area that the money was just not there. I am still surprised that she apparently still effectively lived in the surgery and so she did not have the safety net of valuable property and supportive family around her like (most of) the rest of us.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]As a single vet in practice the years of relentless pressure can build up. She always appeared a lonely figure and probably more vulnerable for that.[/quote]It can, but I learned to cope. We've said it all before but Wynne gave the impression of being a strong person from her views so it was more of a surprise that she felt so vulnerable. But in hindsight these were probably the reasons for her extreme views, never getting married or raising a family and being so dedicated to animals who don't judge and give unconditional love.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:52:15 GMT

Story didn't make it into the Mail today, but still might tomorrow.

RE: Wynne

Bob Russell — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:26:00 GMT

The timing of her death did make me wonder about the tax man being involved. I also posted that there are options available via Inland Revenue to spread a tax bill where paying it in one chunk is not possible (in case anyone else was struggling). When I was self-employed the pressure in January could become much greater than at any time of year.

What a shame and waste that she decided to take this route (very Wynne of course!) rather than other options.

I suspect intense pride was a factor but with the changes going on within the profession making a moderate living can now be a real challenge and the difference between being able to pay bills and not can be a good or bad month.

As a single vet in practice the years of relentless pressure can build up. She always appeared a lonely figure and probably more vulnerable for that.

She did know there were many friends here and it will always be a cause of sadness that she did not feel she could reach out to one of us!

Wynne was Wynne and at least she had the last words!

'Murder by Taxman' - love it!!!

RE: Wynne

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:46:24 GMT

It's hard to see this as anything other than utter waste. Also so hard to see how someone who seemed as strong in the head as Wynne could have been in such despair, that this seemed the only / correct choice.

RIP, to a friend I never met.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:43:30 GMT

I've just been contacted by a journalist from the Daily Mail, who is writing about Wynne's inquest, which I hadn't realised was held today.

I guess he picked up on it from the BBC News story here. Must say, Wynne's letter to the coroner brought a wry smile to my face. Very Wynne.

Still haven't managed to write an obituary, and I feel rather bad about that. Partly the pressure of the rest of my workload, and partly because of the difficulty in finding anyone who could actually give me much detail.

Under the circumstances, I think perhaps better instead to mark her passing in other ways. I have something in the pipeline which was inspired (if that is the right word) by the circumstances of her death.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:47:40 GMT

Another update. I've chipped in to the kitty, which brings the amount raised for World Horse Welfare to £865 inc Gift Aid, which I think Wynne would have been pleased about, but if anyone else still wants to add anything to the pot, https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/hannah-wynne-richards

Also, I haven't yet written an obit, partly because I didn't want to ask all the questions of her family and friends so soon after the event, and partly because of pressures of work and home in recent weeks. But still plan to get on with this shortly.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 13 Feb 2017 10:44:44 GMT

Bumpedy bump - in case anyone hasn't seen this since I posted late last week, and wants to tip their hat:

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/hannah-wynne-richards

RE: Wynne

Sylvia Wilson — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:50:22 GMT

I have been away from these forums for a while but re-connected with Wynne through them a while ago. I was at Bristol in the same year as Wynne and spent a great deal of time with her then as we both lived in Hall at Langford in final year, but it has been several years since we met in person, to my great shame. We were both a little bit outside the mainstream. Wynne was a bit older than most of us as she had done a biochemistry degree at Liverpool before coming to Bristol, and she was absolutely determined that her future should be as a veterinary surgeon in practice, preferably large animal!

A few of us from that year will be attending the funeral and Suzi McIntyre is planning to speak.

RE: Wynne

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 11:16:31 GMT

I've been off for 2 weeks and have just seen the news, I am shocked and saddened. Wynne's contributions were always thought provoking, even if you didn't always agree with them! And her passion for animal welfare shone through. I've never met any of the regular contributors here in person, and I think it's only when something like this happens that we realise how important our online relationships are.

RE: Wynne

bob lehner — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:44:30 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]It would be good if a representative of the forum went.[/quote]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]If any members are planning to attend, could you PM me so I can let Lisa know.[/quote]

I live just down the road from the Church - happy to attend and represent VS.org if appropriate. Anyone else going and wanting a stop-over is welcome to stay at my home.

RE: Wynne

Sarah Jane Denny — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:08:46 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

So let's just remember Wynne for the big, generous character she clearly was. I do not believe there are lessons to be learned from her death in particular, but I do think it could and should spur us on to think of practical steps that can be taken to reduce not just the incidence of suicide and depression in the profession, but the more general levels of anxiety that can be a precursor.

[/quote]

I just want to add my appreciation of Wynn. I have always really enjoyed Wynn's posts here. Though sometimes she did repeat herself!! Her views did not agree with mine but her kindness and humanity were clear from her responses to people looking for help and advice. I wish I had met her and regret that I did not make an effort to do that. I locum in UK and Ireland and have often driven through Wales. So many times I wondered if Wynne would mind if I did a day 'seeing practice' with her. More from the curiousity to spend a day working with a real pro and the somewhat selfish idea that I would just have a fun day hanging about and spending a day with a very interesting person!

I wish I had done that and so regret not having the gumption to to ask Wynne if she would be keen.

And I want to say that I appreciate Arlo very much and his attention to this sad story and the new thread following on from this.

As an aside, I think that the idea of occasional 'seeing practice' with colleagues, especially for those who work sole charge, could be a good way of avoiding the feeling of isolation, and a fun and relatively low cost way of doing some mentoring type CPD. Arlo if you have any ideas of how that could be formalised/maybe linked in to the locum register here (which sorry I have not registered with yet!). Given that the sole charge vet would need a locum for their day of CPD.

RE: Wynne

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:12:42 GMT

Thanks for that Arlo, little frisson of pleasure on Wynne behalf in clicking on gift aid and thwarting those tax collectors a little

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 19:20:51 GMT

And incidentally, I shall also be sending flowers to Wynne's funeral, from her friends on VetSurgeon.

If any members are planning to attend, could you PM me so I can let Lisa know.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 19:12:07 GMT

I have now set up a Just Giving page for anyone who would like to make a donation in memory of Wynne to World Horse Welfare, one of the charities that has given a home to some of her horses. I gather she had a good relationship with WHW, and her nurse and executor both felt it would be the most appropriate beneficiary.

The donation page is here: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/hannah-wynne-richards

One thing: do not be embarrassed to give just a small token. A couple of quid. It's the thought that counts. It's a nod. A tip of the hat.

RE: Wynne

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 15:02:39 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Arlo Guthrie Can we set up an account or on line donation fund to make a collective donation for Wynne to the World Horse Welfare fund?[/quote]

In progress

RE: Wynne

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 14:55:59 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I just get the feeling Wynne would hate the fuss!

[/quote]Ditto.

RE: Wynne

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 14:48:28 GMT

This is obviously short notice from many ppl that would love to come and say their goodbyes. Particularly on a Wed morning. It would be good if a representative of the forum went. I also support Kate Richardson's idea.