WTAF???

RE: WTAF???

Rebecca MacMillan — Sun, 05 Feb 2017 20:30:43 GMT

One of my memorable cases was a senior cat that had been brought in who had had a bit of diarrhoea, and was a bit lethargic and not quite right. When I examined it I found a low BC and palpable goitre, however the main issue to me seemed to be the medium sized hole in the back of one of it's hind leg that was full of maggots!!! And yes, the owner was a GP.... *sigh*

I understand they may be busy but this doesn't stop someone using their common sense or examining their own pet. As someone else said, if an educated doctor can't spot the obvious, what help is there for the average joe!

The other case was an senior anaesthetist who wanted to breed from his 7-8 year old CKCS who had just been diagnosed with a grade 4 heart murmur. Strong talking to from me about why he shouldn't! The dog actually did then go on to develop lymphoma, so that put a stop to any breeding aspirations anyway unfortunately!

RE: WTAF???

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:36:57 GMT

Also proves the point that dogs will not stop when they're tired!

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Utlendigur — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:59:51 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]BG was 1.11, temp was too low to read on a thermometer. After some i/v glucose and aggressive warming, she came round nicely. Turns out the owner hadn't fed her the morning of the shoot. Nothing since 5pm the night before![/quote]

Wasn't there a request in Vet Record a few years back from someone in Glasgow wanting to recruit gun dogs who had had episodes of this "new syndrome" of hypoglycaemia. If I remember correctly, it was followed by several letters from some of the many vets who enjoy endurance sports pointing out the blindingly obvious....ie hard exercise plus insufficient calorie intake = hypoglycaemia

RE: WTAF???

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:45:50 GMT

I had a paramedic bring his dog in on Friday afternoon. He had taken his 6 yr old springer out beating on a shoot, in and out of the water. Dog kept going until it collapsed, he took it home, tried to warm it up and rub honey in her gums, when that didn't work he brought it in.

BG was 1.11, temp was too low to read on a thermometer. After some i/v glucose and aggressive warming, she came round nicely. Turns out the owner hadn't fed her the morning of the shoot. Nothing since 5pm the night before!

What makes it worse is he asked what he could do to prevent it happening again...

RE: WTAF???

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:36:00 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]

They understood that she was dying, but even at the point where their beloved pet became totally moribund, tachypnoeic and desperately poorly... clearly "suffering with no hope of relief"... they still queried whether euthanasia was the right thing to do...

Perhaps our response to suffering is just differently tuned, because we have the option to euthenase.

[/quote]

Completely agree. I am currently watching my grandma, age 94, go through 'end of life care.' I know that they don't have the option of euthanasia, but, even so, the approach to life/quality of life is completely different in humans.

RE: WTAF???

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:11:52 GMT

Having now euthenased the poor creature, I was left with the impression that these GP's have possibly become so used to watching their patients waste away and die slowly, that it never occurred to them to seek a Vet's advice. They understood that she was dying, but even at the point where their beloved pet became totally moribund, tachypnoeic and desperately poorly... clearly "suffering with no hope of relief"... they still queried whether euthanasia was the right thing to do...

Perhaps our response to suffering is just differently tuned, because we have the option to euthenase. Which ties in with many of the posts on the recent tangential post.

RE: WTAF???

Julie Innes — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 17:13:10 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]

Julie Innes I didn't mean to quote you in that last post, it wasn't a personal attack just a general observation

[/quote]

No problem, Seadna. As I said, I have met some very good doctors throughout mums illness, but have also seen them as clients, where they often baffle me with their seeming lack of understanding. I just couldnt get my head round my friend not knowing where to even find s dogs heart, or even had a listen out of curiosity. I know if any of my kids had had a murmur I would have had to have a listen!

We see a lot of suffering too, but I dont think I will ever get inured to it.

RE: WTAF???

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:53:35 GMT

I think the OP thought the reaction of a doctor was unusual hence the title of the thread and it is worrying that this does not seem to be the case. Rather than this being doctor bashing it is illuminating that perhaps some doctors are becoming inured to seeing suffering and should have our sympathy if that is the case

RE: WTAF???

Richard Carter — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 09:33:18 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "] an awful lot of doctor bashing going on in this thread[/quote]

and as doctors are highly educated people in a caring profession with a privileged position in society, we don't think that their apparent ignorance about biology, pharmacology, pathology and suffering is appalling? What hope for the rest of our clients then?

RE: WTAF???

Seadna — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 09:00:29 GMT

Julie Innes I didn't mean to quote you in that last post, it wasn't a personal attack just a general observation

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Seadna — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 08:58:14 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]the dog had a heart murmur- "What does that mean?" Well, you know what a heart murmur is, don't you? What grade? Have you listened? Ant clinical signs? " I don't know- what signs? [/quote]

There is an awful lot of doctor bashing going on in this thread and it strikes me as being a little bit unprofessional. I tend to completely switch off when I come home from work and it sometimes makes me blind to ailments that my own pets have and unsympathetic to any boo-boos my husband has. Add to that the fact that almost everyone (vets included!) gets a little bit cloudy, confused and panicked when our own pet gets sick and I can sympathise with doctors who have seemed dumb/negligent in the consult room.

Anyway for my money, when it comes to casual cruelty, wilful ignorance and utter stupiditiy as regards animal welfare, nobody can beat the farmer.

RE: WTAF???

Julie Innes — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 23:43:31 GMT

I have had varied experiences with doctors. As a vet, I find they have either already (inappropriately!) medicated the animal before bringing it to me, or they are bemused that their animal could have a condition they assume is "human" eg renal failure. My friend was a GP and called me in a panic because her vet had told her the dog had a heart murmur- "What does that mean?" Well, you know what a heart murmur is, don't you? What grade? Have you listened? Ant clinical signs? " I don't know- what signs? Where even is a dog's heart??"

My mum suffered from SLE for many years prior to her young death, and I dealt with a huge array of doctors. She had arthritis, renal issues, neurosurgery (aneurysm), TB (a weird frog related strain, apparently!!), and laterally heart and lung issues. I constantly had to be on the ball. They would give her one drug and I would politely point out that she was on another (contra-indicated) drug. My pharmacology knowledge possibly saved her life on a few occasions, not least when they put her onto digoxin at the hospital and asked me to collect her. When I went in she was vomiting profusely (bear in mind this is a woman who is renally compromised). They tried to tell me she had a bug I asked if they had done digoxin levels and they looked surprised and said they wouldn't usually do that. I said I wasn't taking her home until they did. They were very huffy, but did the blood test then mysteriously took her off the digoxin and kept her in on IVFT for another 3 days.... What if I hadn't been a vet, and knew that the toxic dose of digoxin was so close to the therapeutic dose, and that it was renally excreted?? I dread to think.

RE: WTAF???

grumpyoldman — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:35:38 GMT

[quote user="mjoyce"]Sorry above was comment to GOM and his disease infested GP surgery ![/quote]

I have to say I think the concept of acquired misanthropy aka Moliere is probably more accurate , and a better reflection of public interactions.

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Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:36:53 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"] Do GPs actually examine patients any more? [/quote]

Some do! I had an absolutely brilliant doctor until he retired. He ran a singlehanded practice and one never had to wait long for an appointment if one's case was urgent. Now I'm with a group practice and although I don't like it much I can't fault the doctors.

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Robin Grimmer — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:27:28 GMT

My own GPs were useless when I had knee problems - ACL tear one knee, meniscal tears other knee. Said they were just 'sprains'. Luckily had private so able to bypass long NHS wait and see consultant who was pretty certain of the diagnosis from history and clinical exam, even before imaging. Do GPs actually examine patients any more? I sometimes wonder that most GPs are little more than counsellors, dishing out anti-depressants and sleeping pills.

RE: WTAF???

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 11:28:14 GMT

My eldest son has what I am convinced is a grumbling appendix. Pain in the right place, not moving but not really getting better. Off work for a month now.

Diagnosis on discharge sheet? Abdominal pain!!

RE: WTAF???

David Mills — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:41:34 GMT

There is a saying in the medical world: if you can, do, if you can't, become a GP.

It is much easier to hide in the public sector, especially where your competence does not directly impact the practice's income; if you want a job for life, work for the NHS. You also have to remember that the selection criteria to study medicine is much lower than veterinary medicine, and it is seen as a career choice for many in terms of prestige rather than vocation.

You also have to remember that many GPs are nothing but glorified decision-tree algorithm enforcers. The number of guidelines and diktats is phenomenal. There was a study once that showed for about 30 patients in an emergency ward, not all of whom had a definitive diagnosis, there was something like 4 days' worth of reading of guidelines and evidence that related to their conditions.

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Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:13:40 GMT

Hmm...I remain neutral. I think most vets, at the very least, know that canine cystitis usually involves some bacteria....

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mariette asselbergs — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:51:51 GMT

Never mentioned possibility of stone or offered ultrasound to client by any of the vets. Just diagnosed cystitis and prescribed metacam.

Mariette

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Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:56:12 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Asked the routine question "Is she on any medication?" Yes, she has been on conrtinuous metacam for the last 6 months. What for? For continuous cystitis. Seen by 4 different vets, all continued to prescribe metacam because she got better on it, then got worse as soon as they stopped it. I looked with the ultrasound and bingo a big bladder stone. Seen by 4 different vets......[/quote]

Did the clinical histories actually agree with the owner's version of events?

The story may indeed be true...But I'd bet at some point the histories will say 'owner declined investigation' or something similar

RE: WTAF???

Iain Richards — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:11:21 GMT

Haemorrhagic giarrhoea?

Ventroloquist's dog?

RE: WTAF???

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 09:46:37 GMT

On the other hand, I saw a 2 year old female neutered dog with haemorrhagic giarrhoea and vomiting. Asked the routine question "Is she on any medication?" Yes, she has been on conrtinuous metacam for the last 6 months. What for? For continuous cystitis. Seen by 4 different vets, all continued to prescribe metacam because she got better on it, then got worse as soon as they stopped it. I looked with the ultrasound and bingo a big bladder stone. Seen by 4 different vets......

It may not only be doctors sometimes...

Mariette

RE: WTAF???

mjoyce — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:31:25 GMT

Sorry above was comment to GOM and his disease infested GP surgery !

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mjoyce — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:17:05 GMT

You have got to be taking the Piss!

RE: WTAF???

grumpyoldman — Mon, 23 Jan 2017 14:31:41 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]The back streets of Delhi ? I[/quote]

It could be if their were a few tuck- tucks running about , its certainly messy and derelict enough.

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]poorly humans after all not scum of the earth. [/quote]

Well that is a matter of opinion, most of their problems relate to poor state education ,lack of contraception, and terrible lifestyle choices ,so actually it probably is their fault when you think about it . [quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]poorly humans after all not scum of the earth. [/quote]