Am I right to be annoyed about this?

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Will McMullan — Fri, 16 Dec 2016 09:37:28 GMT

Nothing to do with my ego - I was the one who suggested referring him if my initial work up didn't sort it, and I encouraged him to keep the appointment he had made. He didn't and bought me a bottle of whiskey though, so my ego is well and truly placated anyway!

What annoyed me was the possibility of a neighbouring practice trying to sneak clients away from me. We are a tiny branch surgery of the only independent practice in an ocean of corporates, and I've worked hard to build up my client base over the last couple of years through word of mouth. We haven't done any aggressive marketing that would affect this neighbouring practice, and always fully respect succession for any 2nd opinions or transferring clients, which is what I would expect from them, especially since they have had some referrals from us in the past, something that takes a lot of trust if you are only a mile up the road! I just wanted some advice about how to approach it so that I didn't jump the gun and unnecessarily upset a colleague, and I still haven't spoken to them about it, so it turns out I must not have been too upset. I will do, but only to make her aware of what her receptionist is saying to people. I may think twice about where I send my skin referrals in the future though.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 21:10:36 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]My advice is work is work and your private life is private,[/quote]

Absolutely, familiarity breeds contempt, keep them at arms length, it was much better when they addressed you as MrX.

[/quote]

I think the OP is just suffering from a bruised ego as his 'friend' knocked him back and went for a second opinion.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

grumpyoldman — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 20:56:58 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]My advice is work is work and your private life is private,[/quote]

Absolutely, familiarity breeds contempt, keep them at arms length, it was much better when they addressed you as MrX.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:20:03 GMT

I don't think it's a big deal. My advice is work is work and your private life is private, keep them separate. Also if you were undercharging him, fine if you are a partner, not if you are an assistant.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 11:06:10 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]At the moment, yes, because at the moment, it's just: "The client said the receptionist said...", which in terms of evidence, wouldn't really hold up in court.[/quote]But this doesn't alter the fact that this person betrayed Will's trust and is no longer to be trusted as friend or client.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:40:06 GMT

[quote user="Will McMullan"]I feel that this is underhand, isn't the right way to deal with clients generally and is especially rude to a colleague that has referred cases to you in the past. Am I over-reacting? [/quote]

At the moment, yes, because at the moment, it's just: "The client said the receptionist said...", which in terms of evidence, wouldn't really hold up in court.

[quote user="Will McMullan"]I will ring and have a little chat with the dermatologist in question and see what she thinks.[/quote]

Absolutely the right thing to do. A fiver says it was a misunderstanding somewhere along the line.

(and not that you've said you would, NEVER contact someone about (or discuss) a grievance by email. It doesn't work. Usually makes things worse. Telephone or face-to-face is the only way).

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Eamon McAllister — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:30:19 GMT

Always charge friends and acquaintances the full price. No good turn goes unpunished. In this instance your relationship with the client will never be the same again so you might as well get shot of him before he leaves and then forget about the whole episode. Be strong.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Will McMullan — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:54:47 GMT

On the other hand though, don't underestimate the value of a couple of clients who you 'look after' towards word of mouth recommendations. I know it's not a good idea to get a reputation for being cheap/undercharging, and generally I am quite militant on charging for my time, but one or two clients who still generate a reasonable amount of work but get the odd batch of medication without a consult fee can bring in quite a few friends because they are so happy with their treatment. And I haven't found that those friends expect the same treatment, so I don't think they've been told that I'm a soft touch.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:10:21 GMT

[quote user="Will McMullan"] Charging him much less than I should as I know him a little outside of work[/quote]Who needs enemies with friends like that? Personally I would lose no sleep over this and would wash my hands of this person professionally and personally. Its the sort of crap I'd expect from our local practices anyway.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:10:10 GMT

Sounds to me like reception staff trying to save clients money syndrome. The vet probably has no idea this has happened.

Doing favours for clients/ acquaintances often seems to make the recipient undervalue vet treatment. I once went out of my way to help the owner of my local pub who used to ask me " while you're here " requests for checking his dogs ears etc. He then changed practices because our worm tablets were more expensive. He was quite surprised when I refused his next request for a free consult in the pub.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Will McMullan — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:58:50 GMT

A little confused Clive because you say I am over-reacting a little but that it warrants a letter to the RCVS? I think I'll just discuss it with her as I'm sure when I point out that it's not in the spirit of succession she won't want it to happen again. Unless she is being deliberately sneaky and in that case it probably will happen again, at which point I might take more action.

I think part of my annoyance stems from the fact that this case I am actually working up in a stepwise manner as a textbook would suggest, which I rarely get to do, and only 2-3 weeks into treatment/diagnosis, the client wants away! I should stick to bones.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Clive Ansell — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:39:41 GMT

Direct answer to the OP, yes you are overreacting a little.

As GOM says, skin cases come and skin cases go, and many come around again to collect their preds/Advocate/Malaseb. certainly not worth losing any sleep over.

I would be a little annoyed with your colleague - a referral standard clinician knowingly taking on a colleagues case without requesting a clinical history warrants a letter to the college in my opinion.

Skin cases though must be one of the commonest causes of dissatisfaction among and complaints from clients.

I had one last week; 18 month pruritic SBT, 3rd or possible 4th opinion. Man moaning that all the other vets do is dish out pills and shampoo and charge me £100 a time (The clinical notes version repeatedly states diagnostics offered but declined). I discuss and advise a stepwise full dermatological investigation and possible referral, and produce a printed estimate for the work. Man leaves with a months worth of preds never to be seen again, off to seek a 5th opinion no doubt

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

grumpyoldman — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 00:09:42 GMT

1.skin problems to and fro at the drop of a hat , no worries , 2. people/clients are sly and fickle 3. their is no royal college of receptionists so they do pretty much as they like until and unless pulled up on it.

If you think they have been deliberately sneaky and underhand ,which is quite likely, just forget it and send your skins to a diplomate far and away so you do not loose anymore clients. and still get to sell the prednisolone when they come back with the same diagnosis.

Local referrals in general do not work because the client puts 2+2 together and just assumes that the 2nd practice is better at everything if they get a result and are not too far away . Often the 2nd practice will not try hard enough to make them go back.

With age and experience comes a kind of jaundiced reality.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 17:21:57 GMT

I think your 1st mistake was in mixing business and personal by not charging properly, and this has naturally increased your annoyance, as you feel (justifiably) that you've had a kick in the teeth from someone you've done a favour for. Secondly. I'd echo Evelyn, and check with the dermatologist that this isn't the action of an out of order receptionist.

Wynne

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Will McMullan — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:36:00 GMT

Well I was quite annoyed at the client as I always bend over backwards for him but also because I feel I am working the case up as a dermatologist would. But I have spoken to him and explained that and he has apologised, and actually cancelled the appointment with the neighbouring practice (against my wishes), but I am slightly annoyed by the way the other practice has gone about it. Not enough to start kicking and screaming which is why I thought it best to get the opinion of some level headed forum types I will ring and have a little chat with the dermatologist in question and see what she thinks.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Rob Davis — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:00:24 GMT

[quote user="Will McMullan"] as I know him a little outside of work[/quote]

I suspect this may be the cause of your annoyance...

I can see why you would be irritated, but it's not worth getting worked up about. The client has decided to seek a second opinion which they are perfectly entitled to do. This is a second opinion rather than a referral as the client has approached the other practice not you. How the other practice chooses to charge for that is none of your concern. In your situation I would speak to the dermatologist in question to make them entirely aware of the situation, and leave it at that. If you remain on good terms with both the dermatologist and the client, then hopefully the client will be sent back to you for follow up treatment and long term care.

RE: Am I right to be annoyed about this?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 15:58:24 GMT

I hope it's just a receptionist who doesn't understand things, but it seems bizarre. If this dermatologist's time is worth £100, who's going to be seeing the dog for the £30 consultation? If the dermatologist's time is worth £30, why is she charging £100 when it's a referral? Delusions of grandeur?