exit stragedy

RE: exit stragedy

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:45:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Is it still only a converted garage?[/quote]It never was a converted garage even when you were there Tony, it was far less grand than that - just a couple of sheds!

You forget the 3 bedroom detached house. There is now a purpose built extension on the back which extends half the length of the garden. The house itself is relatively unchanged and would require very little restoration back to its original state so that's 2 flats to start with little effort and I could still let the extension at commercial rates if need be.

RE: exit stragedy

Anthony Todd — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:00:37 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] Full repairing lease 5 year reviews; unlikely to get anywhere near that any other way.....[/quote]Turn it into 4 flats (at least) each min £1500/month rent probably more with Crossrail coming.

Is it still only a converted garage?

[/quote]

RE: exit stragedy

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:45:57 GMT

Yes....but you also have to factor in the time, stress and costs of conversion! What would the commercial rent be?

RE: exit stragedy

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 17:42:24 GMT

RE: exit stragedy

Anthony Todd — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 17:32:59 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Surely that is ideal...sell up but retain income from the rental?[/quote]

+1 in spades! What return can you get for a load of money?

Full repairing lease 5 year reviews; unlikely to get anywhere near that any other way.....

RE: exit stragedy

grumpyoldman — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:42:07 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Not whilst the majority of practices are independents. There's a long way to go yet.[/quote]

I thought it was 26% owned by one nationally ? One or two may approach that sooner than you think, not that i mind watching them eat each other up, its a bit like Man City playing United in the 5th round of the FA cup , at least one of them is not going to win it.

RE: exit stragedy

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 14:30:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Also the property value is so high they couldn't afford to buy it outright, I would have to have been the landlord even If I'd quit[/quote]

Surely that is ideal...sell up but retain income from the rental? If you decided to sell at a later date, a vet practice in situ should make for a good property investment!

RE: exit stragedy

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:51:47 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]What they are really interested in is collecting market share with minimum effort . They do not like smaller operations because there is always a massive amount of personal goodwill involved that they cannot replicate. As soon as MA goes out of the door for the last time his turnover will drop 40% [/quote]The offers were dependent on me staying on as an employee/'clinical director'/whatever but as said I quickly realised that I could not work for anyone else. Also the property value is so high they couldn't afford to buy it outright, I would have to have been the landlord even If I'd quit so those factors would have reduced the goodwill considerably.

RE: exit stragedy

J G Wray — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:23:02 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]I get the tales of woe most often from former incumbents/owners who did not sell for enough money, found their services no longer required ,and end up on the locum circuit.[/quote]

If someone is unhappy for reasons other than just filthy lucre then selling at any price will not solve their problem. Furthermore, financial planning is available, so naivety has no place.

The locum circuit is what you make of it and how it furthers your purpose.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]You also hear from people who are trapped after one engulf and devour is eaten by another and the contracts get changed post merger.[/quote]

TUPE regs exist for a reason. For contracts to materially change there needs to be some measure of persuasion and complicity

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Its interesting that they are now feeding off each other, as well as buying referral outlets etc. You do wonder at what point will the competition commission start looking at it?.[/quote]

Not whilst the majority of practices are independents. There's a long way to go yet.

RE: exit stragedy

grumpyoldman — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 16:29:44 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"] gotta say these stories, when I've heard them, leave me a little short on sympathy for those who have sold up. After all, they accepted an offer and took the money. They're the ones with the big bank balance. They precipitated the changed situation and guess what, it's a changed situation.[/quote]

True, all the better to walk away then. Its a bit like selling classic old Mini cooper S to someone you vaguely know and grinding your teeth when they respray it bright pink. I get the tales of woe most often from former incumbents/owners who did not sell for enough money, found their services no longer required ,and end up on the locum circuit.So important to make sure you can afford to just walk away completely.

You also hear from people who are trapped after one engulf and devour is eaten by another and the contracts get changed post merger. Its interesting that they are now feeding off each other, as well as buying referral outlets etc. You do wonder at what point will the competition commission start looking at it?.

RE: exit stragedy

J G Wray — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 12:14:44 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]All the take overs I have witnessed locally over the past 15 years and there have been lots,(70% corporate now) have seen the former incumbents make a sharp exit shortly afterwards, usually within 12 months .often not on the best of terms. [/quote]

"All"? ".often"?

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]That maybe because they were just not capable of functioning as employees any more, did not like being corrected, clinically, things move on etc and not everyone moves with them. Unable to control and direct reinvestment was another factor.[/quote]

I gotta say these stories, when I've heard them, leave me a little short on sympathy for those who have sold up. After all, they accepted an offer and took the money. They're the ones with the big bank balance. They precipitated the changed situation and guess what, it's a changed situation.

For those who are unhappy after selling, the lesson is surely "money can't buy happiness", which isn't really an original thought.

RE: exit stragedy

grumpyoldman — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 00:29:39 GMT

Everything evolves , and most things grow and change , your business/turnover should double in size every 6-7 years but the chances are your used to having control and may not fancy an ecdysis. Legacy is for politicians and film stars.

All the take overs I have witnessed locally over the past 15 years and there have been lots,(70% corporate now) have seen the former incumbents make a sharp exit shortly afterwards, usually within 12 months .often not on the best of terms. That maybe because they were just not capable of functioning as employees any more, did not like being corrected, clinically, things move on etc and not everyone moves with them. Unable to control and direct reinvestment was another factor.

So probably better to just take maximum swag and walk away,and depending upon age and family relocate.

RE: exit stragedy

J G Wray — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 17:57:19 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]What they are really interested in is collecting market share with minimum effort .[/quote]

Of course

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]As soon as MA goes out of the door for the last time his turnover will drop 40% so they prefer medium sized 3-6 vet practices where this effect has been diluted. [/quote]

Sometimes by design

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Looking at the BVA numbers published recently the top quartile of performers makes £260k+ per vet per year. I would be looking for 300-350k per vet 2BH, so that you can pay them well and keep them longer. [/quote]

Agreed

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] They can also pay them less and dump the OOH work while sticking all the clients on the drip with a pet-careprogramme of some kind.[/quote]

We've already employed an OOH provider and our Healthy Pet Club is the cornerstone of cash flow, a prudent provision in any small business. We pay at a higher (SPVS) rate

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]They need to do this because they will throw the drills and clever toys away and ship all the interesting work to their own pet gurus where they can charge loads more. [/quote]

Not so sure about that. Just had a conversation with a recent seller who is sticking around on an earn out, but with reduced hours, so he can see more of that person he asked to marry him whilst being curious about the refurb and CT the new owners are planning.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]So if your going to do it , sell it and walk away quickly do not hang about to watch it morph into Vetsrus[/quote]

Not so sure about this in terms of watching something morph into a clearly defined corporate or multiple model, because any number of the corporates want the practice to run as it is, but achieve increased profitability by better management of costs, instead of just driving turnover.

If you have a need for a legacy, to define why you did what you did for thirty or forty years, then selling to a multiple/corporate might dilute that. But, here's the thing; once you've gone, you're gone and the best you can hope for is being invited back for the Xmas party and bumping into clients who remember you for a couple of years. There is no recognition of contribution to whatever in general practice.

And.... what's a stragedy?

RE: exit stragedy

Anthony Todd — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:06:18 GMT

There is at least one "multiple" who consider current staff and making everyone happy if possible.

They even gave [or tried to] golden handshakes to those who obviously wouldn't fit although they had no legal requirement.

PM me for details.

RE: exit stragedy

grumpyoldman — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 11:28:39 GMT

They write to me in one form or another on a weekly basis , I think its because once you go Ltd for a few quid they can go on companies house and get a potted version of your accounts . What they are really interested in is collecting market share with minimum effort . They do not like smaller operations because there is always a massive amount of personal goodwill involved that they cannot replicate. As soon as MA goes out of the door for the last time his turnover will drop 40% so they prefer medium sized 3-6 vet practices where this effect has been diluted. Looking at the BVA numbers published recently the top quartile of performers makes £260k+ per vet per year. I would be looking for 300-350k per vet 2BH, so that you can pay them well and keep them longer.

. There is an assumption that the retiring incumbent has not been doing much work for a few years anyway so they can immediately re-jig the fee structure and employ 3-4 bright young pony tail bearers who will be anonymous, interchangeable, do as they are told, wear the same t-shirts and not give them any lip. They can also pay them less and dump the OOH work while sticking all the clients on the drip with a pet-careprogramme of some kind. They need to do this because they will throw the drills and clever toys away and ship all the interesting work to their own pet gurus where they can charge loads more.

So if your going to do it , sell it and walk away quickly do not hang about to watch it morph into Vetsrus,

RE: exit stragedy

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:47:39 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I dipped my toe in the water with one of the groups buying practices. After a bit of toing and froing they informed me they don't buy practices with a turnover under around £500-600K[/quote]Interesting. I've had offers from Vets 4 Pets, Independent Vetcare and Goddards yet I am single handed and have a net turnover now of only around £210K. Maybe they saw potential for expansion. In the end their offers weren't that good and I neither wanted to retire nor work for anyone else so I've decided to muddle on.

RE: exit stragedy

Bob Russell — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 11:45:12 GMT

I dipped my toe in the water with one of the groups buying practices. After a bit of toing and froing they informed me they don't buy practices with a turnover under around £500-600K (unfortunately misplaced the actual figure).

Therefore not interested in practices smaller than 2-2½ vets!

Not really that bothered as I only made the enquiry because we can only do more with more vet input and I cannot find a part-timer!

We have potential for moving the practice forwards but not without some back up!

Shame really as I quite fancied someone taking some of the strain away!

RE: exit stragedy

Anthony Todd — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:50:50 GMT

PM me.