Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:11:32 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

We could really help by getting the age of first oestrus in cats imprinted on the charities' foreheads!

"six months" is way too late!

[/quote]

Have you looked at the age that charities recommend neutering cats recently:

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/cats/health/neutering

http://www.cats.org.uk/what-we-do/neutering

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:52:22 GMT

[quote user="Toadster"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]far more footage given to the team being spayed by a power hose by the puppy farm owner.[/quote]

Hahahah! I'd pay good money to see that!! Fab typo!

[/quote]It was a very powerful hose!!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Alison Clare Hickman — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:49:13 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]far more footage given to the team being spayed by a power hose by the puppy farm owner.[/quote]

Hahahah! I'd pay good money to see that!! Fab typo!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:28:10 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But getting back to the OP, and I am getting a sense that a few people think the new pet consultation might be a good idea. [/quote]Arlo we will be preaching to the converted. As said before I write a column in a local rag which covers this topic regularly, it is on my website, there are notices in the waiting room all giving advice on how/where to find a puppy and saying to check with us first but the stream of sickly puppies bought of Gumtree etc is still endless. Heck, I've even lost clients over this because they won't listen and go the 'nice vet up the road' who is cahoots with the dodgy breeders because he tells them what they want to hear! I don't think anyone else would listen even if we shouted it from the rooftops. They probably think that we have a hidden agenda to part them from their money as that seems to be far more common point of view than that the vast majority of 'breeders'/dealers are totally dodgy. How many times do we get the impression the new owner thinks we're trying to rip them of telling them they need flea and worm treatment and suggesting a food other than the sh*t the breeder fed them?

There was feature on puppy farms on Watchdog recently and even our colleague Mike Jessop was not given the time/opportunity to show how bad the situation really is. It was virtually glossed over in the interests of TV drama with far more footage given to the team being spayed by a power hose by the puppy farm owner.

You are assuming average pet owner can engage their brain - they don't!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Wren — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 09:07:19 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

An equine pre-purchase exam provides a new owner with an absolute guarantee that the horse will be perfect in every way possible (unless stated otherwise)!

It provides an unlimited pool of dosh to fill the bank because of the loss of future revenue because the Shetland pony does not make it to the Olympics!

Solicitors see it as a potential way of filling their coffers as well!

That is how some buyers (and sellers) see it. Thankfully VDS don't see them the same way so fight the vets corner!

Best way to walk around with a target painted on your back is to do these examinations!

[/quote]

Thankfully (and I believe it is very much down to good luck!) I have only had two problems with vettings, despite doing as many as 40-50 some years. On one occasion when I was slightly wetter behind the ears a wily aged Yorkshire horse dealer galloped a hunter for me on a hilltop on the moors in a hurricane and somehow managed to keep the horse a sufficient distance from me to prevent me from hearing the considerable inspiratory noise it made. New purchaser noticed almost straight away, VDS stood the cost of Hobdaying and everyone was pretty much happy.

On the other occasion the horse was sound when I examined it, but not so much when it had been in its new home for a fortnight. Dealer (one of the nice and pretty straight variety) took the horse back and refunded the purchaser, we came to an arrangement for the ancillary costs the purchaser had incurred. Everyone happy.

I agree though, they're not for the faint-hearted!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Anthony Todd — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:04:27 GMT

We could really help by getting the age of first oestrus in cats imprinted on the charities' foreheads!

"six months" is way too late!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Bob Russell — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:59:21 GMT

An equine pre-purchase exam provides a new owner with an absolute guarantee that the horse will be perfect in every way possible (unless stated otherwise)!

It provides an unlimited pool of dosh to fill the bank because of the loss of future revenue because the Shetland pony does not make it to the Olympics!

Solicitors see it as a potential way of filling their coffers as well!

That is how some buyers (and sellers) see it. Thankfully VDS don't see them the same way so fight the vets corner!

Best way to walk around with a target painted on your back is to do these examinations!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Wren — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 11:45:35 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Wren"]Welcome to the world of equine pre-purchase exams - the most litigated corner of veterinary medicine in the world ever.[/quote]

Tell me more!

(But I do think it's a rather different scenario. I can't imagine many people would even think to litigate because you advised them to buy a spaniel rather than a pug, and any risk could be near as dammit eliminated by providing written, broad advice with small print that: "Each animal is unique, and whilst every effort has been made to recommend a breed or species that suits your particular lifestyle, we can obviously not make any guarantee about the suitability of any specific animal.")

[/quote]

You are correct - it is quite a different scenario as we are pronouncing on the suitability of a specific animal. But punters are still punters...

I wonder whether it might be an idea more suited to a nurse clinic or similar? You could give them a voucher or something redeemable against the puppy vacc/check for their new purchase in order to a) keep them on the books and b) gain something concrete in return for your vague words of wisdom.

Or maybe an app/website quiz where you input your circumstances (house location, size, garden facilities/hobbies/family members/roughly how much cash you think you will be spending on keep per month/available time per day for walking) and it gives you some suggestions?

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 11:05:31 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Wren"]Welcome to the world of equine pre-purchase exams - the most litigated corner of veterinary medicine in the world ever.[/quote]

Tell me more!

[/quote]

I can imagine a lot of people try to sue for a lot of things these days ;)

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:14:37 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]Welcome to the world of equine pre-purchase exams - the most litigated corner of veterinary medicine in the world ever.[/quote]

Tell me more!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Wren — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:04:10 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

I do wonder where such advice leaves you legally.

[/quote]

Welcome to the world of equine pre-purchase exams - the most litigated corner of veterinary medicine in the world ever.

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Cat Henstridge — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:26:16 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

I would be hopeless and destroy our patient base. "Right you're not allowed anything brachycephalic, chondrodystrophic or anything with an adult size smaller than a cat or bigger than a newborn calf. Or anything rare (ie inbred). Or anything from working stock, unless you are going to exercise it properly physically and mentally and not just trail it round the park on the end of a lead for 20 minutes once a day. Nothing smarter than you. No breeds that were ever used for gripping, guarding or fighting. No huskies. Nothing described on the breed club website as "feisty" "aloof" or "fiercely loyal". Nothing that comes with neoplasia pre ordained. No Shar Pei. Nothing with silly posty hindlegs whose patellas are going to fall out (small) or cruciates go ping at the age of about 2 (large). No breed with any disease named after it. Nothing whose parents have needed more than one bottle of Malaseb or Surolan in their lives. Nothing that costs more because it is a special colour. Nothing with an average lifespan lower than my shoe size. Apart from that, you can have anything you want."

[/quote]

But why not say something like this? If people come to us wanting our honest, unbiased advice, or if we advertise a service to offer that, then this is EXACTLY what we should say!

Possibly in a slightly less direct manner but really the message should be the same. As long as we judge each person as an individual; the old lady in a flat should certainly not have a Husky but for the guy who does fell running, one might be really suitable.

And it's not just breed choice but where to buy a puppy from. It is damn hard to sift though all the farmed/imported/backyard bred dogs available on-line to dig out the honest breeders (yes - there are some!). It is hardly surprising many people don't bother or simply don't realise that the majority aren't responsibly bred (why would you when you don't know anything about it, buy one dog a decade and all the adverts look the same and legit), if nobody actually tells them!

I am all for Arloe's idea, we can't sit around on the sidelines and moan about the choices our clients make if we don't actually make any effort to help them or steer them in the right direction!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:14:02 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"] No breed with any disease named after it[/quote]

Arlo, where's the crying laughing emoji?!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Anthony Todd — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:38:15 GMT

At least offer to advise, so that when the above (etc.) arrives you can say that you advised a call before purchase......

Mine just was "if it looks wrong or doesn't seem right, always walk away!"

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 17:26:28 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Can I use a modified version of this on our facebook page? [/quote]

Although it is hilarious, I'd be cautious about releasing something similar to your clients Bob. People can be very touchy about criticism of their pet- real or perceived! I can see it now... ' but I have a border collie and he only needs 5 mins of walking every day and he's happy as Larry....he simply enjoys eating my sofa and grandchildren .... and 'but my pug is fine, his snoring isn't quite as loud as my husband's anyway and he only faints once a day so he must be OK.'

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:08:06 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Can I use a modified version of this on our facebook page? If so are you happy to have it attributed?[/quote]

You work away :-)

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 11:07:29 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

Nothing smarter than you.

[/quote]

Ooh, that really narrows the list of suitable pets down! :p

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Bob Russell — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 09:36:11 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

[/quote]

Can I use a modified version of this on our facebook page? If so are you happy to have it attributed?

I suggest a title "The breed of dog your vet really would like to recommend?".

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Bob Russell — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 09:26:05 GMT

We provide our clients with a checklist of do's and don'ts, common sense tips and warnings on how to try to spot the really dodgy sources.

Breed choices and recommendations may be given but based on personal bias and knowing the client.

I do not expect any of them to listen, they will still come in having bought the puppy they planned in the first place!

As I said previously, nice idea!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

David Mills — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 02:12:39 GMT

I do wonder where such advice leaves you legally.

I can imagine the uproar (my clients): "you said this would be the best breed and now its got..."

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 22:34:32 GMT

Seriously....crying with laughter!

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 22:32:03 GMT

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:47:28 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The idea is a brilliant one but doomed to failure![/quote]

I beg to differ!

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Sensible owners will have already discussed the matter well in advance.[/quote]

With who? This research says that ONLY 5% have discussed with a veterinary professional.

I look at it like this:

Clearly many millions of owners never spoke to a veterinary professional before buying a pet.

At the moment, I have yet to find an example of any veterinary practice that offers this service AND ADVERTISES that fact in any way at all. I've yet to find a single practice website that says 'thinking of buying a pet, talk to us first'.

Now of course it could be that the reason millions and millions of pet owners haven't talked to a veterinary professional prior to buying was because they didn't want to, in which case, you're right, this is doomed to failure.

Or it could be that a significant percentage of people (like me) would welcome the chance to talk to a veterinary professional before buying, but like me, they didn't think it was on the menu.

The way I see it, we only need to persuade a small percentage of the 95% that currently do not talk to a veterinary professional prior to buying to talk to a practice first for this to be a significant success, both as a marketing initiative for practices, and in terms of animal welfare.

I mean, if only another 5% of pet owners decided to have a pre-purchase consultation just as a result of being told you can offer this, that's another 1.1m owners, according to the PDSA.

1.1 million - that would be a success in my book.

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Timothy Miles — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:40:12 GMT

Check out www.paag.org.uk/

A lot of work was done by the animal charities under the Chairmanship of Clarissa Baldwin of the Dogs Trust.

RE: Pre-purchase consultations for prospective pet owners

Bob Russell — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:39:11 GMT

The idea is a brilliant one but doomed to failure!

Sensible owners will have already discussed the matter well in advance. Most will be busy looking for something that looks nice on GumTree or Pets4Homes.

The first we see of these puppies is the first check. I advise people to be seen ASAP for a free puppy check with a vet! We are looking for major risks eg murmurs together with working out how dodgy the source of the puppy is!

Many don't want to be advised, they want to buy easily, quickly and 'economically'. Most get away with things but some don't of course.

At least this gives me a chance to issue a covernote in time for the vomiting and diarrhoea that comes next.

It really is time for stricter controls on who can sell!