Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:31:40 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Similarly, although our practice was effectively run by my wife, with me there just as a jobbing dog-plumber, the majority of my female colleagues habitually referred to Croft as my practice[/quote]

Yeah, I get that all the time - although, to be honest, if specifically asked the staff would probably be more likely to call me 'The boss'! [

My grandma frequently refers to 'Ian's business'.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

J G Wray — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 23:01:52 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

...... It seems that not all women are completely "on-message".

[/quote]

If someone is not " on-message" what should happen to them? Should there be an inquisition, a naming, shaming, outing?

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:49:01 GMT

Veterinary sexism is alive and well. Interestingly, in my experience the clients most likely to insist on seeing a male vet were the middle-aged women who would never admit to being middle-aged and would always refer to themselves as ladies, not women. Similarly, although our practice was effectively run by my wife, with me there just as a jobbing dog-plumber, the majority of my female colleagues habitually referred to Croft as my practice and that persisted after we incorporated when our board always had an excess of women over men. It seems that not all women are completely "on-message".

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:55:42 GMT

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

J G Wray — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:58:01 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]It is when some people KNOW I am the vet and then question my ability, simply on the basis of my gender, that is offensive.[/quote]

Only if you let it will you find it offensive.

I was going to say "Just grow a pair....and let it go" but that might be seen as melting a snowflake.

These days, at least in our practice, it's hard to distinguish the genders beyond a certain age, with similar amounts of hair sprouting from previously hairless lip and orifice, so there's little issue in practice.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

David Mills — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:33:32 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

They wanted a male vet . Simple as that They didn't mind who- they just seemed to think owning a penis was non negotiable

[/quote]

There's your mistake. For most men, their penis owns them.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:29:32 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]We also have requests to be seen by female vet only... [/quote]

In my experience, that is usually because they think their pet is more likely to bite a man (rarely true) ... Nothing to do with ability.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:16:34 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

They wanted a male vet . Simple as that

[/quote]

Since people address me as 'fran'. Very often a client thinks that they were seeing a lady. We also have requests to be seen by female vet only...

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:02:27 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

They wanted a male vet . Simple as that They didn't mind who- they just seemed to think owning a penis was non negotiable

[/quote]

I have had a request before at a previous practice from a new client to not see "either a girl vet or a foreign one". Quite frankly I was happy for that person to annoy my male, English boss but still odd to think there are still people out there who will judge vets on random criteria before they meet them.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:00:45 GMT

Yeah well in my first job [age 24ish] a farmer asked if "that vet" could come and have another look at a cow.

"Which vet came?" enquired Eileen, on the phone.

"Dunno" said the farmer but it was "the short, stumpy, balding one"....

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

ruths — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 15:04:12 GMT

They wanted a male vet . Simple as that They didn't mind who- they just seemed to think owning a penis was non negotiable

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:57:27 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

I've had clients refuse to see a female vet in one practice where I locummed

[/quote]

Did they offer any explanation as to why?

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

ruths — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:53:45 GMT

I've had clients refuse to see a female vet in one practice where I locummed

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:58:34 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"][sigh][/quote]

No need to get frustrated.

To be honest, I don't get particularly annoyed by people mistaking me for work experience (I wish it still happened) or a nurse. It happens relatively frequently but I'm sure it happens to younger male vets too. My male nurse gets very frustrated when people assume he is training to be a vet.

It is when some people KNOW I am the vet and then question my ability, simply on the basis of my gender, that is offensive. There is a difference.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Utlendigur — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:23:41 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Marchewka"]I once admitted an animal, operated on it and discharged it. I had done the work up and was the only vet in the building. I spoke to the client about the plan for the dog and sent it home. As the client left the consultation room he turned and said to me 'tell the vet thank you very much love'.[/quote]

Same sort of thing numerous times

"Is the vet going to be long dear?"

"I don't see why we should be charged a consult fee for last time, we only saw a nurse" - this last one was a few weeks ago - they'd seen a new female vet at the practice

"Are you qualified to take stitches out?" - from the owner of a cryptorchid dog cast that I'd operated on (and the client had been saying how pleased they were with the dog's recovery and the neatness of the wound to reception) - I enjoyed telling them that since I'd done the op, I was pretty sure I was ok to take the sutures out

Being mistaken for the boss's sister or wife

Having clients direct questions, or answers to questions I asked, to the male EMS student

I don't think it's a case of being offended by it, but it does make you annoyed when you are feel you are frequently starting from one or two steps back from male colleagues, because you first have to get some clients to accept that you are actually a vet and are capable of doing the work, simply because you happen to be female.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

J G Wray — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:22:04 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Marchewka"]I am not sure that I see the point here. I am just saying that if I had been a man then the client would have assumed that I was the vet.[/quote]

[sigh] When I was five years qualified, blessed with a round and baby face, no chiselled cheek and jaw, I had a hirsute German student seeing practice. Clients frequently addressed him rather than me...I just let the conversation run until the natural point of embarrassment...

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Rebecca Marchewka — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:14:43 GMT

I am not sure that I see the point here. I am just saying that if I had been a man then the client would have assumed that I was the vet.

I wouldn't be offended if I emailed someone calling myself R Marchewka and they then got my gender wrong. How could they know?

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

J G Wray — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:01:44 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Marchewka"]There are people who assume that because you are a woman that you can't be the 'driver', 'boss', 'vet', whatever.[/quote]

Y'know, sometimes it's a bit difficult to know who you are addressing.

FOr instance I received an email from someone called "Peris [surname]" the other day, a PA to two very, very important people.

I replied "Dear Mr [surname].." because I'd never met them and got the reply from "Mrs Peris [surname]

I neither assumed this person was a woman, nor knew for certain their gender. I just thought Peris was a male only name, related to Peregrine.

There is a contributor of unknown gender on this forum called "Evelyn" who doesn't take offence to being called a man or a woman, but woe betide calling them Welsh.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Rebecca Marchewka — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 12:44:10 GMT

I think that the 'woman driver' type comments are annoying because they make a joke out of a serious issue. There are people who assume that because you are a woman that you can't be the 'driver', 'boss', 'vet', whatever.

I once admitted an animal, operated on it and discharged it. I had done the work up and was the only vet in the building. I spoke to the client about the plan for the dog and sent it home. As the client left the consultation room he turned and said to me 'tell the vet thank you very much love'. He just assumed I couldn't be the vet.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:07:19 GMT

The initial aggressors were the terrorists who were backed by senior Serbian politicians.

Wynne

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 00:25:44 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]In the First World War, they died because the stupid politicians had drawn up a whole series of mutually interlocking treaties, which between then guarantied mutually assured destruction instead of a minor skirmish...............and, to make things even worse, Britain was on the same side as the terrorists who started it all. What an appalling waste![/quote]

No, Wynne, in the Great War they died throwing back German aggression.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 00:20:50 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Trump's attitude towards women would probably have lost him the election.............if Bill Clinton hadn't been equally bad.

Wynne

[/quote]

As was Kennedy, of course.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

James Laidlaw — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:12:40 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Anecdote alert -Many of the men made some kind of comment - from just 'ooo - a woman driver' to 'oh dear, maybe I should walk home instead'. [/quote]

About your anecdote... Is it possible that the fact that they got in the bus makes the joke a self-deprecating one instead of a real misogynistic comment? Only an observation, I would accept being wrong here.

Not sure if I should be explaining my reasoning further: If a man makes the comment and doesn't get in the bus, I would think this man is definitely a sexist idiot. But the fact that they only make the comment as a joke, could be interpreted as: 'Look at us, only 50 years ago we were all idiots, thank God we're not there anymore...'

[/quote]

It would be self-depreciating if Gillian made the comment, but people commenting on her are depreciating/belittling her, not themselves. The latter part would maybe go a way to improving the situation, but there's a lack of need to bring it up in the first place.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:09:29 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I thought I also saw a posting from Gillian at 11:02. If I was wrong, then sorry Gillian................genuine error.[/quote]

No need to apologise. Whether a post from me appeared at 10.54, 11.02 or 11.03 is irrelevant to the discussion. The facts remain the same.

RE: Just a joke or 'accepted' misogyny?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:04:45 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] How we ended up with him when there were at least 4 excellent Republican contenders is totally baffling.[/quote]

Easy. He was the richest and the biggest celebrity. No contest.