Is it just a job?

RE: Is it just a job?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Nov 2016 08:29:05 GMT

I think you have a very valid point. Far from being pushed into veterinary medicine, when I was a schoolgirl it wasn't considered a suitable career for a woman, so nearly everybody tried unsuccessfully to push me into human medicine, which I didn't want to do. This may seem strange to our newer grads, who think of our profession as female dominated, but attitudes were very different 40 years ago. A very few people encouraged me, but for every one who did, 10 had the attitude "Don't be silly. You can't do that. You're a girl"

I've never regreted my choice.

Wynne

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:33:48 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]My younger brother graduated from vet school and felt pushed to have a career in veterinary medicine. My advice to him was do what you like and never compromise. He is becoming a parachuting instructor now and good for him. [/quote]

Who pushed him and why, now we're getting somewhere. Nobody pushed me, it was all I ever wanted to do!

Was this "pushing" after he got brilliant A levels?

[pilots are another good example of a vocation, not a job,, poor pay, lots of responsibility, horrible hours, absence from home , buy your own uniform and meals etc. etc.]

RE: Is it just a job?

ruths — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 07:40:36 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

[quote user="Holly Norman"]

I have a great job in a great practice and right now, I’m a vet. However, if an opportunity came up that was not vet-related I would consider changing careers if it felt right.

[/quote]

If this is how you feel about your career maybe you should really change it? The longer you wait to more difficult it will get.

I am in no way criticising anyone and I understand life is not always simple. My younger brother graduated from vet school and felt pushed to have a career in veterinary medicine. My advice to him was do what you like and never compromise. He is becoming a parachuting instructor now and good for him.

[/quote]

but 'I have a great job' doesn't really feel it needs changing just now.....

RE: Is it just a job?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 00:11:21 GMT

[quote user="Holly Norman"]

I have a great job in a great practice and right now, I’m a vet. However, if an opportunity came up that was not vet-related I would consider changing careers if it felt right.

[/quote]

If this is how you feel about your career maybe you should really change it? The longer you wait to more difficult it will get.

RE: Is it just a job?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 00:06:33 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]

I have to agree with Martin on this. I was severely out-burned when I was an employee, but since I am a Locum and I have a perception of taking the jobs that I want and be able to choose it is much different.[/quote]

The point I was trying to send across was exactly this. If something is not right then change it. If castrating dogs is boring learn to do procedures that are more expensive and more time consuming. There will be no time left to castrate dogs. There is always another way.

RE: Is it just a job?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 16:24:10 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]I was severely out-burned when I was an employee, but since I am a Locum and I have a perception of taking the jobs that I want and be able to choose it is much different.[/quote] One reason I couldn't locum is because I couldn't pick and choose as much as I wanted and would have to follow practice policy and treatment protocols I wouldn't necessarily choose myself. Also there would be many occasions that I wouldn't be able to follow a case through which is one of the best things about being a vet in general practice. Clearly I would be coming into it from a different starting point but I'm too much a control freak to ever work for anyone else.

RE: Is it just a job?

J G Wray — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:57:26 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Well here's your chance to say what you think

https://www.vetset2go.edu.au/veterinary-employability-forum

This is a survey which touches on employability a natural extension of career identity.

[/quote]

This is a collaborative project with researchers in the uk, so why not put your thoughts in?

RE: Is it just a job?

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:55:34 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]All I'm trying to do is to find out why this is happening, as it is a recent phenomenon, certainly compared to "back in the day".[/quote]

I think that the 'back in the day' simply doesn't fit, I could simply say that is because we live today and non back in the day, but all society has changed some much that this comparizon it's not good. There's so much more competition, so many client that get partial and biased knowledge from internet or other unreliable sources, and the culture of litigation is so much more common nowadays that often you feel like a vase of earth ware between vases of iron (for the figure of speech refer to A. Manzoni "I promessi sposi")

RE: Is it just a job?

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:47:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I'm sure many if not most of those who are stressed are those who are employed. Certainly becoming self-employed and being able to set my own agenda, even if it was little change from previously, was a quantum leap forward for me. This outweighed any of the aggravations of running a business and being the employer.[/quote]

Though I believe that it is only a job, it's a job I like very much and that I would not prefer to part from, but it is not what I am, what I am is much more complex than just a vet!

RE: Is it just a job?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 13:41:26 GMT

total agreement with Anthony and Martin

Wynne

RE: Is it just a job?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 13:20:17 GMT

[quote user="Holly Norman"]For those that say ‘It’s not just a job’, what qualifies this? Is it how you define yourself or your lifestyle?[/quote]Of course its a job in that it earns us a living. But it is also a career and vocation which means that you have to make certain sacrifices both getting into that position and during your career to have a job which is rewarding and satisfying which sometimes means compromises in the rest of your life as well. You can have your cake and eat it but you might have to settle for smaller portions with less icing.

[quote user="Holly Norman"]I have a great job in a great practice and right now, I’m a vet. However, if an opportunity came up that was not vet-related I would consider changing careers if it felt right.[/quote]I do feel sorry for you if this is really the case. Yes there are other careers I'm sure I'm capable of following but I chose this one for many good reasons and although there have been a few rocky patches nothing on the way has changed that vision. Maybe a professional explorer or sportsman could have hit the spot but I'm realistic to know that these are opportunities that only are available for the privileged or talented few and they are unlikely to be sustainable in the long term.

[quote user="Holly Norman"]I think we do have to develop a ‘shell’ to help prevent us from getting too emotionally involved in difficult cases [/quote]Even I have a shell for when it is necessary but I can pop in and out of it and although my career does define who I am to a very large extent, I still can sit back and reflect that whatever happens in my career it is not the end of the world and there are more important things in life.

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:49:00 GMT

[quote user="Holly Norman"]With the recent surveys and news articles regarding compassion fatigue, vet drop out rate and dissatisfaction amongst new graduates,[/quote]

All I'm trying to do is to find out why this is happening, as it is a recent phenomenon, certainly compared to "back in the day".

If we don't find out there won't be any vets left!

[quote user="Holly Norman"]surely we shouldn’t be pushing vets to be so consumed by their profession?[/quote]

Surely this comes from within the individual and cannot ever be "pushed"?

RE: Is it just a job?

Holly Norman — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:25:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Well how sad is that being stuck in what is just a job. I couldn't live like that, I love my job and I like to think that after 12 years it also defines part of me. I love going to work and I wouldn't do anything else in life. Maybe the reason why are so many struggling with their career is because they chose the wrong one. [/quote]I[/quote]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I think you have hit the nail on the head here Dinu. But also I wonder if those who get in the mindset that it is just a job do so subconsciously to form a shell to protect themselves from the the stressful parts. [/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean, Dinu? I’m certainly not ‘stuck’ in a job and I really enjoy being a vet. I have been thinking about this thread and the tricky bit is trying to place a definition on ‘job’ versus ‘lifestyle choice’/’vocation’.

For those that say ‘It’s not just a job’, what qualifies this? Is it how you define yourself or your lifestyle?

I think Martin is closer to what I am trying to get across!

I have a great job in a great practice and right now, I’m a vet. However, if an opportunity came up that was not vet-related I would consider changing careers if it felt right.

I think we do have to develop a ‘shell’ to help prevent us from getting too emotionally involved in difficult cases and accept that we cannot give gold standard care to every pet whether that’s due to compliance or cost etc. So for me, the ‘it’s just a job’ allows me to realise that I am doing the best that I can for every animal, within whatever limitations there are.

With the recent surveys and news articles regarding compassion fatigue, vet drop out rate and dissatisfaction amongst new graduates, surely we shouldn’t be pushing vets to be so consumed by their profession?

RE: Is it just a job?

Nicola Cole — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 21:51:42 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I do a lot more than that, 10 in a week sometimes with charity work but the truth is I enjoy the surgery however repetitive it is.

[/quote]

Couldnt agree more.

Likewise if I happen to have 10 vaccinations in a row I still enjoy them. Yes, giving a vaccination is routine, but each pet is different and certainly with nervous pets if I can give them (and their owners!) a less stressful experience I feel it's a job well done.

RE: Is it just a job?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 09:37:31 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Well how sad is that being stuck in what is just a job. I couldn't live like that, I love my job and I like to think that after 12 years it also defines part of me. I love going to work and I wouldn't do anything else in life. Maybe the reason why are so many struggling with their career is because they chose the wrong one. [/quote]I think you have hit the nail on the head here Dinu. But also I wonder if those who get in the mindset that it is just a job do so subconsciously to form a shell to protect themselves from the the stressful parts.

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Only if you let it be. I spayed maybe 10 cats the whole last year and I can't remember when last time I castrated a dog. I work full time.[/quote]I do a lot more than that, 10 in a week sometimes with charity work but the truth is I enjoy the surgery however repetitive it is.

I'm sure many if not most of those who are stressed are those who are employed. Certainly becoming self-employed and being able to set my own agenda, even if it was little change from previously, was a quantum leap forward for me. This outweighed any of the aggravations of running a business and being the employer.

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 09:25:21 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Not being critical of facts, but could some of the reason be just boredom. or getting no satisfaction from inactivity?

[/quote]

Certainly for me. I finished my CertAVP teaching in April, and then as I wasn't being stimulated by learning in a quieter branch my mood was massively affected, much shorter fuse etc.

Realised this now with the help of colleagues so just trying to keep myself stimulated.

RE: Is it just a job?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 08:16:18 GMT

Dinu may be in an old fashioned mixed practice

Wynne

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 23:19:39 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]I just don't get to do them not that I avoid them. [/quote]

I didn't think you were avoiding them.

Is it because that is all there are to do or because other vets in the practice do them?

RE: Is it just a job?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:59:54 GMT

I just don't get to do them not that I avoid them.

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:58:36 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Only if you let it be. I spayed maybe 10 cats the whole last year and I can't remember when last time I castrated a dog. I work full time.[/quote]

The above is a point I hadn't thought of.

Not being critical of facts, but could some of the reason be just boredom. or getting no satisfaction from inactivity?

Gee, I hate one stars without a reason, defeats the purpose of a forum!

RE: Is it just a job?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:48:36 GMT

[quote user="Holly Norman"].

And yes, for me, veterinary medicine is just a job. There are good bits and bad bits like many careers but ultimately veterinary medicine is what I do and not who I am.

[/quote]

Well how sad is that being stuck in what is just a job. I couldn't live like that, I love my job and I like to think that after 12 years it also defines part of me. I love going to work and I wouldn't do anything else in life. Maybe the reason why are so many struggling with their career is because they chose the wrong one.

[quote user="Holly Norman"]

At the start we all empathise with every one of our patients but after a while you realise that the majority of this job is the boring bread and butter consults and neutering.

[/quote]

Only if you let it be. I spayed maybe 10 cats the whole last year and I can't remember when last time I castrated a dog. I work full time.

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:43:39 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]It's a typical Americanised story, full of hyperbole, non-sequiturs, poorly structured and poorly masked personal heroism. [/quote]

Yeah, I sort of agree, he goes from this, at the start:

In fact, in our very large private physician group, the rate of burnout and attrition is, well, damn near close to zero. So why is that? What were we doing right?

and this:

I insisted that it’s not our life. I tried to express that it’s simply a wonderful, marvellous and mystical avenue to allow us the opportunity to pursue meaningful work, make a good living, support our families and to do a job that allows us to see and do many magical things.

And then sort of confused me with:

What is it about us? I truly think it comes to four simple words that all of us have grown to embrace. Those words?

It’s just a job.

And rambles on with all sorts of disconnected "goods" and "bads" after that.....

I'd say he was very happy with his job!

I doubt if any patient of his would know whether they were going to live, die, or be cremated, drilled or counter-punched after consulting him though!!!

RE: Is it just a job?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:26:17 GMT

I wonder whether:

Because of the higher examination grades required modvets think they are entitled to be unchallenged and, because they have graduated, think that success in all their challenges will, therefore, be guaranteed, automatic and immediate?

[Back in the day not many vets got As at A level?]

[Ironically CPD in my day was not even achronymised and vet conferences were not mainly for learning....!]

Lesser acceptance of "experience" and techniques and more acceptance of "modern" remote science and referrals?

[Less emphasis on the Jizz of a case, more on what the lab results and Xrays etc. say]

A more patronising approach to clients because of modvets' superior A level results?

Less desire to be "taught" because they know it all already?

Difference in male V female attitudes, aspirations lifestyle etc. etc.

Anyway, whatever it is, it's a new phenomenon in the profession and should be analysed and addressed, 'cos it's a big problem and getting bigger.

It sure ain't too much work!!

RE: Is it just a job?

David Mills — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:22:44 GMT

It's a typical Americanised story, full of hyperbole, non-sequiturs, poorly structured and poorly masked personal heroism.

There's a difference between switching off and regarding your specialised career as just a job. He is probably sociopathic, or more likely, lying, if he says he fakes sympathy for patients all the time. I find it odd.

The comparisons don't work at all. The Starbucks analogy is laughable - very few people go into a job making coffee in Starbucks because they want to, and the false happiness is part of the job description, as much a part of it as serving coffee. Whilst some detachment is desirable in doctors, and we all have bad days where we hate the world but fake friendliness, to equate that with being part of the job? Weird.

The bartender is unskilled labour, and by defintion, his job is much easier than being a Doctor. It's why only a small percentage of the population can be doctors or vets - a level of analytical intelligence is required that is not widespread. You can become a bartender after about 10 minutes' worth of training. And again, not many people grow up wanting to be a barman. The author confuses the importance of working to live and provide - the disabled daughter anecdote - and working in a profession that tries to do good. Healing people is more important than serving someone drinks. What the bartender does with his money is immaterial. It's a peculiar trait of the left that try to demean the professions.

All in all, it's a crock of shit really.

RE: Is it just a job?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:22:49 GMT

The golden oldies ( Anthony, Martin and I ) are certainly still enjoying our work, and motivated by it. It's certainly a lot lot more than just a job to us.

Wynne