Annual leave over the summer - no children

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 00:04:55 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]Discrimination is illegal.[/quote]

Er, ackshly, it's discrimination between employees on certain specific grounds that is illegal.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Chris Milligan — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:02:18 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Er, you don't have a legal right to take holiday at a time of your choice.[/quote]

Reading carefully goes a long way - I didn't say you had a right to it at a time of her choice. Her employer is effectively ruling out 2-3 months of the year when she can take her holiday at the expense of anyone else. Discrimination is illegal.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 19:07:47 GMT

I can't believe Dr Wray just called Piers Morgan a count.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

J G Wray — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:07:48 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Although many on this forum are in denial[/quote]

Are they a bit wet? geddit?

Uxbridge English Dictionary

Acquire—a group of church singers.

Denial—a river in Egypt.

Kidnapping—a child sleeping.

Countryside - the killing of Piers Morgan

This is going to be like Mr Blunt on Twitter - next please

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Clive Ansell — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:06:54 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It was announced last week that CO2 levels are now 400ppm. They were 280 ppm in 1900.

The scientific evidence for the necessity to drastically reduce human population is overwhelming. The only humane way of achieving this is by a reduction in births.

[/quote]

Scary.

I was listening to a climatologist on the radio yesterday, he was saying that the last time CO2 levels were that high was before humans even existed, and what ever we do it would take decades, or even 10 of decades, for the levels to decrease. Photosynthesising plants are the only way CO2 can be removed, and fossil fuel consumption needs to be dramatically reduced.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:23:13 GMT

Although many on this forum are in denial, which is terribly sad since veterinary surgeons, above all others should be dedicated to the health and welfare of animals, at least some others are waking up to the danger. Article in today's Telegraph. The extinction of the world's wildlife should shame us all. (Quote) How sad to think of a world without nature's most beautiful creatures roaming free, thanks to humanity's need greed and ability to breed.

Thanks Telegraph

Wynne

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:39:50 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]They never asked for financial help from anyone.[/quote]

Where did I ever mentioned financial help? Really I must have missed something... Anyway a joke cannot be explained otherwise it isn't funny!

After reading everything I would like to say my views about the original post, as I think that she was looking for some advices rather than to release a rant. I'm a parent, (of only one child but, Wynne, you see if you have one or ten you're framed in the school holidays anyway) so I can understand where your colleagues come from, but on the other hand I still believe that give them the right to pick "always" it makes very difficult for everyone else. To clarify you may have various reasons to need holidays during school breaks, it could be that you have a much beloved niece or nephew that is in school age, you may be married/in a relation with a teacher, etc etc... If I was an employer, I'm glad I'm not, I would act on a first in, first served system taking in to account as well a bit of rota for the favourite times.

In your situation I would have expected some attempt to cooperation, if they always get the summer holidays, at least one could be approached to ask a swap with two weeks in other terms. As an employee I would do if I had not flights and accommodations already booked.

You may wish to try to approach some of your colleagues and explain the situation and I believe you will have to renegotiate the thing with them. Although if it is a long standing problem and you think you're always getting the short straw, you should address this point with your employer and even consider going for new pastures green.

I'm a locum for a familiar choice because I want to be able to decide my holidays when I decide them fit, but your employer as the right to plan everyone leave according to his needs.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Clive Ansell — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:16:54 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"][quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] The problem with parents is they think they have a God given right to expect everybody else to subsidise their chosen hobby[/quote][/quote]

Not sure that is entirely true.

My mother was a very keen dressmaker, baker and had an interest in photography, and my father enjoyed gardening and running a football team. They never asked for financial help from anyone.

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:06:57 GMT

Aha I'm an only child, and was born when world population was 2.65 billion. If everyone had bee like my parents, world population would now be about 1.35 billion, not 7.5 billion.................far less polluting

Wynne

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:50:41 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] The problem with parents is they think they have a God given right to expect everybody else to subsidise their chosen hobby[/quote]

[SARCASM MODE ON] Occasionally you make me think that your parents should have chosen a different hobby [SARCASM MODE OFF]

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:02:17 GMT

It was announced last week that CO2 levels are now 400ppm. They were 280 ppm in 1900.

The scientific evidence for the necessity to drastically reduce human population is overwhelming. The only humane way of achieving this is by a reduction in births.

Wynne

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 02:43:08 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]I believe it was Metallica who said - judge not, lest ye be judged yourself...[/quote]

Who?

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 23:24:10 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]. If I persuade even 1 person of reproductive age not to have children, then I'll have done some good.

[/quote]

Maybe people have children because they are (not all of us but most) naturally designed to want them? And feel their lives aren't complete or worth living without procreating or at least trying? Not talking about sex drive here :-) Maybe that urge overcomes your rational thinking of the planet population...

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 23:18:42 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"] Based on your other posts' I assume you approve of religion? So I assume you're ignoring the fact that you're also massively anti-abortion and possibly anti-contraception?

[/quote]

Take Wynne with a pinch of salt James... she does mean what she says but I don't believe she fits in the category you are suggesting... Take it from a alleged left wing contributor ;-)

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

James Laidlaw — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:35:56 GMT

Wynne.

Thanks for your ever so helpful advice and judgement. Based on your other posts' I assume you approve of religion? So I assume you're ignoring the fact that you're also massively anti-abortion and possibly anti-contraception? I know the pope is traditionally anti-contraception and directly responsible for at least a degree of the population boom in poorer countries where education around contraception and its acceptance may have helped with controlling not only birth rates but also disease transfer in these populations. The religious pro-life movements (because let's not kid ourselves, this is deeply rooted in the Christian right) also don't help with population control.

Please don't in the future comment on how my family will decide to feel about each other. It's none of your business.

I believe it was Metallica who said - judge not, lest ye be judged yourself...

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 18:20:59 GMT

It's an interesting thread, however the question remains 'how does a practice work this?'

Talking to a doctor staying with us, they all sit down once a year and thrash out the dates. To me this has so many advantages, it precludes the same person taking the same prime week every year whilst also allowing everyone to set out the Bank Holidays. From my experience, people within a practice will tolerate an unfair holiday share but only for so long and if it can be sorted easily, what's not to like?

Neil

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 16:17:41 GMT

James Laidlaw. The World Wildlife Fund and the Zoological Society of London have today published a study which estimates that by 2020, 70% of the animal species in existence in 1970 will be extinct. That's a massive drop in a mere 50 years.

Over the same 50 years the human population has exploded from approx. 3.5 billion to approx. 7.5 billion. World population is expanding at a rate of 80 million every year.

The environmental justification to do everything possible to reduce reproduction (on a global scale) is unarguable.

By the time your child(ren) is/are my age, they will probably be cursing you for having had them, because the consequence of far far too many humans will by then have turned this planet into hell on earth for our species, as well as all those which we have already exterminated by our uncontrolled and damaging reproduction. If I persuade even 1 person of reproductive age not to have children, then I'll have done some good.

Yes, I'm angry, and I consider my anger to be justified

Wynne

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

David Mills — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:36:38 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="David Mills"]In certain departments, yep. A and E it is mainly mandatory (except consultants) - to ensure enough coverage.[/quote]

Not strictly true I'm afraid. I've just messaged my friend - (an A+E consultant) and her reply was:

In my dept cons and registrars can have leave when ever they want. Obviously we can't all be off at once!! But can have leave anytime within reason. The more junior docs have leave set into their rotas but they can swap and we try and be flexible.

[/quote]

I said "mainly"?? Let's not forget that consultants and regs make up a tiny amount of A+E staff so they're hardly representative.

The juniors generally have a "choice" of rotas - where their leave is set at the start of that set of rotas (usually every 4 months) Ironically, it's first-come first-serve. And leave swapping is almost impossible other than the odd day or two, and if you do, it means working 10 days on the bounce normally.

It makes me chuckle when consultants sound off about these things. Have they ever tried negotiating with a rota manager

(my other half is a JD and I've heard about this ad nauseum)

("when you're too busy on A+E to look at the clock you can tell when it's 6pm (5pm on a Friday) because the regs and consultants disappear")

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:29:07 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]In certain departments, yep. A and E it is mainly mandatory (except consultants) - to ensure enough coverage.[/quote]

Not strictly true I'm afraid. I've just messaged my friend - (an A+E consultant) and her reply was:

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

grumpyoldman — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 22:40:51 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The road to Hell is paved with good intentions " -[/quote]

i thought it was "ruin" and for some people paved with "former" employees .

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

J G Wray — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:40:05 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

I never read this post as if the OP wanted to seek legal action, but if it so I'd like to take this oportunity to ask if this is a place to air RCVS washing. An organisation that you have criticised insidiously in this forum, and known by all who post here, that this 'gossip shop' is not either the professional or legal channel to air your concerns.

[/quote]

Hey, I've been laying off the RCVS this summer despite some provocation. They are significantly different to the employers subjected to an unasked for examination here. For instance they monitor this website and Presidents have answered queries on this site. They have no discussion facility, they operate secretively and have little accountability to those that fund them. Apart from that everything is just the same

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

J G Wray — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:26:37 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

Whether that means locums or other re-arrangements it gets done. "The tree that lasts the longest bends with the wind".

[/quote]

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions " - it's choose an aphorism day!

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

J G Wray — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:21:47 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

genuine question - do employers have to provide provision for smokers? I recently worked somewhere where one of the nurses was kicking off about having nowhere to smoke -when I suggested she went outside (it was a nice warm sunny day) she retorted "why should I!" She was very well balanced in that she had an equally large chip on each shoulder.

[/quote]

What,what, what? You don't know the answer.? You don't know what employers should do? Had she borrowed your chips?

I T S A J O K E

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

Rob Loxley — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 20:17:57 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]genuine question - do employers have to provide provision for smokers? I recently worked somewhere where one of the nurses was kicking off about having nowhere to smoke -when I suggested she went outside (it was a nice warm sunny day) she retorted "why should I!"[/quote]

Chapter and verse at https://www.gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
Particularly in reply to the nurse "Staff smoking rooms aren’t allowed - smokers must go outside"

RE: Annual leave over the summer - no children

David Mills — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 19:29:43 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]do employers have to provide provision for smokers?[/quote]

No. Most do. Smoking areas cannot be enclosed or substantially enclosed. It is up to the employer whether to provide them, along with smoking breaks.