Career options?

RE: Career options?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 16:52:51 GMT

That's a field in which things were easier when very many veterinary graduates were farmer's 2nd sons. The small business know-how was already there.

Wynne

RE: Career options?

J G Wray — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 12:31:39 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]Young vets need to get together and change the future of practice themselves, not be victims. get creative, think how you can start your own practice with second hand equipment, start mobile practices, help local charities, work from home if it can be done, but somehow get back to what motivated you in the first place, to help animals, not fat cats, within the framework of RCVS guidelines.[/quote]

I'm with the overall sentiment, particularly the bit about self-determination, but talking to organisations which support independent practices may also be helpful. They can support and train in those non-clinical areas where you may have little or no experience or awareness of reality. This is taking the best parts of the Corporate management and support model, but retaining control as an independent

RE: Career options?

Jill Butterworth — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:27:51 GMT

I agree...The Law of Unintended Consequences...apologies to corporate vets, but it's setting off a rant.. the main changes I have seen is a doubling of fees to clients and barely a rise in salary for vets (unless an owner, and that can be variable) since the late 90s.

They have inflated the price of practices out of the reach of the assistants within the practice, leaving them with nothing to aspire to but debt (along with property and student loan).

They frighten vets into thinking they can't cope with running a business on top of being a vet, so they sign up to something which seems great initially, but then gradually they realised they ARE running a small business themselves after all, but another layer of bureaucracy is taking their profits.

Young vets need to get together and change the future of practice themselves, not be victims. get creative, think how you can start your own practice with second hand equipment, start mobile practices, help local charities, work from home if it can be done, but somehow get back to what motivated you in the first place, to help animals, not fat cats, within the framework of RCVS guidelines.

RE: Career options?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 08:37:19 GMT

An On James Herriot started in a small practice, with only 1 boss. Although Siegfried could be irrascible on occasions that was livable with, It's a very different matter when the "big boss" is irrascible, those in the layer immediately above you are attempting to force out those in the next layer up, so as to advance their own careers, and victimising you if you refuse to join in, and the RANAs (as they were then) are allowed to perform procedures which were at that time illegal.

I may be wrong, but I think a contributory factor in the current problems experienced by new grads is the insane decision by Royal College to allow corporate practice. The 3/4 veterinarian practice has been largely squeezed out. Those of us in single-handed practice don't want assistants, and in the larger practices, you invariably get politics. Your advancement doesn't depend on how well you do your job, but on how well you get on with the faction curently in ascendancy. In the case of corporate practice, a further complicating factor is that a branch is often run by a lay person................something I consider totally unacceptable

Wynne

RE: Career options?

Caleb King — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:44:26 GMT

This brings back memories, I felt the same way early in my career, and it was a series of mistakes I had made that bought me to that place - the biggest mistake being accepting a position in a practice whose standards were very different to my own. I left clinical practice returned to university and did another degree in epidemiology. It was a good move. I graduated with honours (got some confidence back), took a job that suited my skills as a disease investigator, literally fell on my feet and was remarkably good at this new aspect of a veterinary career. A decade later I returned to clinical practice when an illness in the family meant I had to choose a job that was less travel. These days I make better choices about where i work and what cases I do. I had to work around it but I think our profession gives us a skill set that is broader than I imagined when I graduated. If you are thinking of leaving clinical practice - there are other avenues that are good career choices that still make use of the study and time you have invested in yourself.

RE: Career options?

An On MRCVS — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:41:49 GMT

Another Anon here. Is it number 5 or 6, I've lost count! I hate my job too, LOL!

RE: Career options?

An On MRCVS — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 18:33:17 GMT

Original anon here, thank you to everyone who has offered support and advice and sympathy to anyone who feels the same, to be crying on the way to work due to being to anxious about what might happen and what mistakes I might make is something I wouldn't wish on anyone else.

To the person who said that the veterinary profession attracts a certain personality type, I definitely agree. I have worked with several people over the years with whom I have shared an attitude to the job - we've all struggled to some degree with anxiety relating to work.

For a couple of reasons (which would definitely identify me to say) I can't ask for support at work at the moment, something has happened in the past few days which has removed the relatively low level of support I had. But what you've all said has made me realise I need to do something so have had a chat with a lovely GP and we'll see how things go. As far as staying in the profession goes, I don't know. Living my childhood dream hasn't quite met expectations. James Herriot definitely has a lot to answer for!

RE: Career options?

a.bardell — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:43:36 GMT

Hi Anon

I've been where you are and worse- hit rock bottom at one point.

please pm me and I'll be happy to help- there's plenty of help out there and things you can do, there are more of us than you realise that have been in exactly the same position

If you want to please get in touch- no worries if you don't

Alexa

RE: Career options?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:36:34 GMT

Tell them what's going on, They may very well be oblivious.

Wynne

RE: Career options?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:34:51 GMT

Just be honest and assertive. If RVN's are bullying the student nurses step in when it happens and tell them to stop. This situation occurred because no one bothered to protect the students in the first place and I am sure it took time to develop. And if they talk behind your back ... well who cares? It's a job not your marriage.

RE: Career options?

An On MRCVS — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:26:20 GMT

Another anon, sorry to confuse things! I was about to start a new thread then stumbled across this one which covers a similar topic. I've been in my current job for a couple of months, the other vets, partners, practice manager and most of the nurses have been great. However there is a real undercurrent of what I feel is bullying of more junior staff by some other staff members. I have been disgusted by the way they have been spoken to both directly and, worse, behind their backs. If a trainee doesn't know how to do something they should be taught, not have snide comments made about it! I am aware one person has been spoken to about this several times in the past but seemingly to little effect; I suspect as there is a real shortage of RVNs they feel there will be no consequences to continuing to behave in this way. There is also a lot of bitching about one of the partners behind their back. I really hate the atmosphere and there's also the worry that they could be talking about me behind my back... I find the job stressful enough already without this undercurrent. I'm worried that if I leave it will look bad on my CV (and the vet world being such as small one, I'm sure any potential future employer would know someone at the practice). It would also really mess up the rota for everyone else and leave them in the lurch. The partners have been great as I've had a take a couple of days off since starting for an unexpected hospital trip and they've been very accommodating and supportive so I don't want to throw this back in their face. I'm at a bit of a loss for what to do.

RE: Career options?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 08:22:37 GMT

Total agreement with Evelyn. I found my feet in a small practice (3 veterinary surgeons) where all I had to do was get on with my job, cure the animals, and be polite ..................... no politically motivated back-stabbing or "in cliques" to deal with.

Wynne

RE: Career options?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 19:34:29 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]The practice manager called me in and complained to me that she had trouble organising a rota now and I must not have another situation like this arise, she was ver unpleasant when she spoke to me about this.[/quote]

WTF?

This sort of crap is the result of "practice managers" getting too big for their effing boots.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I am also desperate to leave practice.[/quote]

Please don't. Find yourself a nice small practice where the nurses (and the practice manager, if any) know their places.

RE: Career options?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 18:19:45 GMT

I was horrendously bullied in my 1st job. I don't know why I was bullied, unless it was because I refused to join in some highly unethical and even illegal pracices carried out by the "in crowd". Luckily I'm a tough character, so they didn't get me down, and I emerged an even tougher character,but I can sympathise with someone who does crack under that totally unfair pressure.

Wynne

RE: Career options?

alison silvester — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 13:50:05 GMT

I guess i feel differently in that now anxiety is very much something in my general life not just work but the first I realised I was becoming so anxious I was unwell was at work and induced by work, by being poorly managed if you could call it managed at all, having no support and no confidence I would be backed up by my employer in any circumstance. I did leave and wished Id chosen another career, never wanted to work in practice again. So I locumed to try and avoid the politics and give me control over being in the situation of feeling trapped by a job and this led me to numerous practices and bosses who gave me faith not all places are the same! How many people in practice are anxious purely because of the nature of the job and their personality and how many are suffering poor management, no support, no real job description, poor work life balance etc

RE: Career options?

An On MRCVS — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 12:15:01 GMT

I read this post and thought, 'I could have written this'. I am 11 years qualified, have only worked in small animal positions with out of hours, in very busy practices, have lots of surgical experience and I had confidence. But I have developed ridiculous levels of anxiety in certain specific situatons in practice. In other areas of practice and my life I am fine. I am not depressed and have never had an issue with anxiety before. What happened to me? A recognised complication of surgery in a very sick animal. A once off case for me. But I feel it was how those around me reacted that contributed most to my anxiety now. There was a reaction from two particular members of support staff: they complained to the practice manager that working with me was causing them terrible anxiety because of that one case. The practice manager called me in and complained to me that she had trouble organising a rota now and I must not have another situation like this arise, she was ver unpleasant when she spoke to me about this. I already felt dreadfully sorry for the animal, the owner and everyone involved but also I was reassured by clinical colleagues and the VDS that everything I did was correct and that I was not responsible. Since that event, now cases that I would have normally dealt with myself, I panic and have a crisis over. Before this I was never a worrier at all. I am also desperate to leave practice. I feel that the veterinary practice put too much of a burden on vets with no support. I am very sorry that I chose this career path.

RE: Career options?

J G Wray — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 08:57:09 GMT

[quote user="alibali"]I think a degree of this type of personality is what makes me and probably you very good and dedicated vet.[/quote]

V perceptive

[quote user="alibali"]. I often spent months trying to think of alternative careers but i guess like you i never wanted to do anything else[/quote]

BVA are looking at this identity piece right now and have asked a very basic question in their recent member survey about when you knew you wanted t be a vet. This will be worth following.

Dr Page-Jones has published in the VR on this and I think is doing a PhD on a related topic. She is building an evidence base, avoiding getting caught up in opinion, which makes her work v interesting. It's early days, but her work could provide the evidence base for dealing with the experience of being a veterinary surgeon.

[quote user="alibali"] At a time I was feeling severe anxiety as I approached work/walked through the doors a wise GP said [/quote]

It's good to hear there's at least one...Did you know when you took the job that this vet could give that advice?

RE: Career options?

alison silvester — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 07:49:28 GMT

I have suffered recurrent anxiety and depression through my adult life/17yrs in practice and although work related stress/hours and pressures have often been the major catalyst I now accept its a problem I have! But I think a degree of this type of personality is what makes me and probably you very good and dedicated vet. I often spent months trying to think of alternative careers but i guess like you i never wanted to do anything else. I just wanted to feel less pressure or feel like i had more support. At a time I was feeling severe anxiety as I approached work/walked through the doors a wise GP said this is not the time to make rash decisions about moving job, career, relationship. The best decision I ever made was to ring the Vet Surgeon Health Support helpline 07946634220 or email healthsupport@vetlife.org.uk. Huge support and specific understanding of the profession and the anxieties and problems that can go along with it. Its only 1 phone call or email and if its of no help nothing lost but it might just be life changing! Xxx

RE: Career options?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:31:20 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]we've all been there [/quote]

Too right! Is there anyone on here who hasn't felt inadequate or worse!???

We graduate knowing it all. or at least I did. The practical side would be a doddle.

Surgery is just anatomy, consulting, knew all the diseases so that would be so easy.

African horse sickness, pretty obvious; pituitary tumours, signs all there; spaying a six-month lab; just applied anatomy really......

The initial poster has the wit, hopefully, to realise this and join the club of inexperienced vets trying to cope, and panicking in the meantime.....

RE: Career options?

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 15:40:50 GMT

Another book to add to the pile on your bedside table is Henry Marsh's "Do No Harm". It's a very good engaging read.

RE: Career options?

Jill Butterworth — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:16:14 GMT

You might find mindfulness and meditating helpful. Try Paul McKenna's Change your life in 7 days (takes longer to read than 7 but is great) with relaxation CD. I developed a way of compartmentalising surgical worries: you must be aware of complication risks, and how to react to them in the BACK of your mind, but they must not be in the FRONT of your mind. This must be reserved for the task in hand. I personally hate to chat/hear chat to the nurses, or disaster tales whilst I am focussing. I scrub up and zone out, just walking through the op in my mind and visualising it all going well. It's like sports psychology. If I get a particularly chatty bunch of nurses who won't stop, I actually use ear plugs...

My latest book is Happiness by Mathieu Ricard, the monk/scientist. Lots of stuff about how to meditate, some a bit heavy going, possibly a difficult translation, and the latter chapters are about the scientific study of happiness. Meditation itself can help you learn to concentrate (my balancing at yoga has improved by it!).

Good luck. Let us oldies mentor you, we've all been there and can sit on your shoulder metaphorically ;)

RE: Career options?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 12:45:37 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I disagree, I think work is the underlying cause of your anxiety but you do need medical help for this. I speak from experience! Confidence is a funny thing though, it can be quickly lost but regained. Recently I did a locum in a different practice with different ways of doing things. Nothing bad happened but I found myself losing a bit of confidence! I went back to one of my regular practices - a busy one with a good team atmosphere and within a couple of days, confidence restored! I think all you need is to find a good practice like that and you'll be fine.

[/quote]

You may be right, but I would be a bit cautious about recommending this approach without at least speaking to a medical practitioner first, if there is an underlying anxiety issue that needs addressing, and the OP changes job and still has the same problems, then they may feel worse rather than better.

[/quote]

I did say they should seek medical help.

RE: Career options?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:18:32 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[/quote]

RE: Career options?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:09:02 GMT

RE: Career options?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:39:12 GMT

I agree with Clare. This is not really a work related issue although that could be the catalyst. W can beat about the bush ad infinitum but you have mental health issues Anon and these need addressing primarily, so seek medical help. As Clare said posting on here is a positive step but we can only offer basic advise and reassurance, you need professional help.