Animal Hospice Care

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 12:12:22 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]some welfare academics discussing death as a means by which animals are denied future experiences. [/quote]

I thought I was the only one who'd noticed that.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 11:38:21 GMT

GOM The only thing that will put the brakes on will be a criminal conviction

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

grumpyoldman — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 11:36:51 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] It was all woe and 'it needs a chance' etc until told them I would charge them full price if they insisted I did it. They had it PTS but not before it sunk its teeth into my finger. [/quote]

We get this all the time , its bad shelter medicine and a terrible waste of limited resources ,but the individuals involved inevitably start bonding and treating the rescues as their pets, but still expect the charity to pay. Before you can blink they are fund raising for CT and MRI scans . We had one referred in for a CT last week (by a charity themselves who did not want to travel) with severe reflux oesophagitis , After the CT I scoped it FOC, sometimes you really feel sorry for all those nice people giving generously having their donations frittered away like this.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:38:52 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I find people that keep their pets going when they need pts some of the most stressful cases to deal with. And you are the bad guy (or girl) for suggesting euthanasia[/quote]Had a totally unhandleable feral kitten with a ruptured eyeball brought in by the CP last week. They were all for getting it enucleated and expected me to do it at discounted prices. I told them that I thought it should be PTS as it will be unhomeable even if it was normal and would just end up living scared shitless in some nutty cat person's bedroom like a shed load of others they have. It was all woe and 'it needs a chance' etc until told them I would charge them full price if they insisted I did it. They had it PTS but not before it sunk its teeth into my finger.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

grumpyoldman — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:31:44 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]Our role in ensuring owners make a sensible choice is not helped by some welfare academics discussing death as a means by which animals are denied future experiences. [/quote]

Your right some of these people need to get over themselves.

I had a row a few months ago with an internal medicine guru for stretching out the demise of a juvenile nephropathy beyond what i considered were reasonable limits. While milking the unlimited pet plan to death at the owners request. Eventually one of us had to go out at 2am to provide the last gasp for the 14kg 3 year old adult boxer after months of torment. Maybe the insurers will put the brakes on this sort of thing?.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Iain Richards — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:29:06 GMT

Since the excellent Reith lectures of about 2 years ago (available on line) I increasingly talk in terms of preparing for a good death. A client put it rather better recently, "I've no intention of putting him out of his misery, because I've no intention of putting him into misery." Our role in ensuring owners make a sensible choice is not helped by some welfare academics discussing death as a means by which animals are denied future experiences.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:07:31 GMT

But although that may remove stressful cases from our surgeries, it will be worse for the animals

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

grumpyoldman — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:04:17 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]What happened to our oath?[/quote]

It got buried under a pile of consent forms and credit card receipts.

And I still think the current powers that be inadvertently encourage Couch case areseholery by giving them a voice. On the good side if these places do appear in numbers they may attract the obsessed looney fringe with hopeless cases the way that rodentologists do currently with buggered guinea pigs

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:40:16 GMT

Unfortunately you're probably right.

What happened to our oath?

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Clive Ansell — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:37:27 GMT

f***ed up beyond all/any recognition/ repair/ reason/ redemption.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:34:18 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

What does FUBAR mean?

Wynne

[/quote]f***ed up beyond all recognition Wynne , very rude but often accurate and succinct

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:26:54 GMT

What does FUBAR mean?

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

vetbl.locum — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 23:53:16 GMT

and just who is going to do that ..............?

..or willing to accept attendant flak for doing so

Doubt if anyone would sadly

Depressingly vet profession is now seemingly FUBAR ed

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:30:07 GMT

If a suffering animal is kept going then this justifies the prosecution of both owner and veterinary surgeon

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

David Mills — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:58:09 GMT

One can only hope that insurance will help in refusing to pay out in these cases.

Else watch it become the corporates' next string to add to their bow - let's drain the insurance fully in the last few weeks. Unfortunately, a lot of money to be made out of this.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:53:36 GMT

This is the worst side of veterinary practice 2016. I find people that keep their pets going when they need pts some of the most stressful cases to deal with. And you are the bad guy (or girl) for suggesting euthanasia when other vets have been beating round the bush. Up there with cat kidney transplants and keeping paraplegic rabbits going.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:44:20 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I don't think we give enough practical advice for owners when their pets get old however, not just medication but how to manage them to make them more comfortable. [/quote]This is undoubtedly true and one of the things that came from the talk I went to was that we just don't have the time to spend an hour on a euthanasia let alone be with a dog as it dies naturally so there may be a place for hospice care. I have no doubt there are some well intentioned vets who see this as a failure of care and want to do something about it but the door is still open for the exploitation gravy train. It is a bit like visiting only practices: filling a niche but in danger of becoming a cherry picking exercise.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:02:44 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

I really dislike this sort of thing ,its encouraging the worst kind of self indulgent couch case arseholery & molly coddling because no one has the balls anymore to stand up and say "this is bollocks and cruel put the dog to sleep".It all stems of course from a fear of the PC thought police of the RCVS springing into action on the lunatics behalf.

[/quote] I expect it stems from a desire to make money out of misguided pet owners. You can't blame the RCVS for everything. I know it's sport for the forum but don't think you can pin this on them

I don't think we give enough practical advice for owners when their pets get old however, not just medication but how to manage them to make them more comfortable.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:39:30 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]It all stems of course from a fear of the PC thought police of the RCVS springing into action on the lunatics behalf. [/quote]I don't think it does at all Mr Grumpy. We're not talking about recklessly recommending premature euthanasia but unnecessarily prolonging the process - more DC fodder in that I would have thought. I've already suggested it is another pathway for the unethical few to exploit the desperate and gullible.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:59:55 GMT

Hear hear

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

grumpyoldman — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:48:02 GMT

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:38:02 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Matt Hilary"]Death can be achieved naturally through hospice-supported natural death[/quote]

What on earth does that mean? I mean, I know death is a natural thing (obviously) but surely we are able to do better than natural, painful, messy dying.

This is appalling.

Niall

[/quote]At the BSAVA meeting I went to the speaker said she would go out and be with the owner as they let the dog die naturally just to make sure it wasn't 'suffering' and was on call 24/7 for her clients for this. OK nothing is certain except death and taxes but surely no-body really wants so see their loved ones taking hours/days to die and the only reason humans have to put up with this is because euthanasia is illegal in the UK.

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Niall Taylor — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:28:45 GMT

[quote user="Matt Hilary"]Death can be achieved naturally through hospice-supported natural death[/quote]

What on earth does that mean? I mean, I know death is a natural thing (obviously) but surely we are able to do better than natural, painful, messy dying.

This is appalling.

Niall

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:42:24 GMT

Total agreement Martin

Wynne

RE: Animal Hospice Care

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:26:56 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]It's one thing giving an owner a bit of time to come to terms with euthanasia, quite another to make a (profitable) industry out of this. I believe there are some practitioners of this in the UK[/quote]I went to a BSAVA evening meeting on this a while ago by an American vet - it is big business over there. The impression I got, even though she tried to deflect it as her wish to care for older animals, was that it is exploitation of the desperate and gullible. But I became really disengaged when she started suggesting holistic practices and Rieki were an acceptable part of the process. I don't know if one vet out of an audience of 30 or more took it seriously, even my student who only starts Uni this term couldn't believe it.