Advice needed about job advertising

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Bob Russell — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:10:00 GMT

In recent years we have found locum agencies monumentally useless. We had a locum booked for one of my rare holidays. Apparently she injured her hand (a couple of months before the start date). Help from the agency? Bug+er all. Not a sound!

I have absolutely zero confidence in the professionalism of the agencies we have used in recent years. Hand injury? More likely a better/longer offer.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Julie Innes — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:52:49 GMT

Hi Arlo, I just get the white box that I can't type in! I'm using internet explorer/ windows. (I've actually, finally, after months of searching, got a locum now, but thought I'd answer you!)

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:50:22 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Is there an issue with the messaging on the locum site?? I am still desperately trying to get a locum for October, and it won't seem to let me message anyone- it's just coming up with a blank box, and I can't type in it! Help![/quote]

Julie Innes Hi - I just tested on your account, and it worked for me using firefox on a desktop. I'll double check with other browsers, but could you PM me what system you are using (device type / operating system).

I did notice one time the white messaging box loaded, but stayed just a white box with nowhere you could type. I then tried again and it loaded fine.

[quote user="peter chalkley"]

Cant you flip it on its head, rather than agents advertise they have locums, set up an Uber for locums on here?[/quote]

peter chalkley I need to go and look at the Uber model. But not sure I understand this bit:

[quote user="peter chalkley"]"I need a SA sole charge for 32-41st Octember"[/quote]

Isn't that more or less what we already do?!

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

peter chalkley — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:29:13 GMT

Cant you flip it on its head, rather than agents advertise they have locums, set up an Uber for locums on here?

"I need a SA sole charge for 32-41st Octember"

agents/independent locums put in a bid

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Julie Innes — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:55:20 GMT

Is there an issue with the messaging on the locum site?? I am still desperately trying to get a locum for October, and it won't seem to let me message anyone- it's just coming up with a blank box, and I can't type in it! Help!

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:26:23 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Would there not be some way of letting locums have an online diary that would show their availability[/quote]

That's in my 'coming soon' tray!

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]and charge a fee if they booked through the forum?[/quote]

Hmm, need to give that some thought.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:05:33 GMT

Would there not be some way of letting locums have an online diary that would show their availability and charge a fee if they booked through the forum? You'd have to leave it so that the final booking was at the locums discretion.

You could even have different charges per day or less (per day) if booked for a longer period etc.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

grumpyoldman — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:31:07 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]my experience with locum agencies is that they are almost universally useless.

[/quote]

This is also my experience , because 1/ they look after their regular business first 2/ they only want to place people into week solid or month solid blocks not the odd bits and pieces we need filled in .

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:05:59 GMT

I can't advise on the cost question but would add that the one reason I have advertised on here is because my experience with locum agencies is that they are almost universally useless. They don't understand my requirements, bombard me with spam when I don't want a locum then either can't find one or get me someone totally unsuitable when I do. Its a commercial decision on your part Arlo.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 17:51:59 GMT

Coming back to the question of locums and discounting the cost of advertising for locum positions, what price would it make sense to advertise?

(obviously the answer to that depends to some degree on the length of time you need someone, but let's say if you need a locum for a week or two).

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

grumpyoldman — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:45:58 GMT

just looked it up ,its got about 1500 followers ,whatever that means ?. The only rule I impose is no cuddly fluffy bunny hugging, pony tailed stepford vets in vetsrus T-shirts calling themselves Dr and no sales/offers, just make it as none corporate as possible.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

grumpyoldman — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:38:12 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Still, you must have a lot of followers to get a response like that.[/quote]

Its weird , the things that I find interesting and good get no response at all, a stray dog with a sad tale and a back ground string quartet and it gets 150 shares 20000 hits and a fund raising lynch mob for the neglectful owners.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:01:02 GMT

This is really interesting, and not at all what I expected everyone to say.

Takes me down the route of discounting for practices (something I am much more inclined to do anyway).

So the question then is how much you would like me to discount locum advertising? At £99 for permanent jobs, we're already cheaper (substantially) than anywhere else of comparible quality/reach.

But I understand that you might be hiring a locum for a very short period of time, and £99 is a lot if you only want someone for the day.

Make me an offer!

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Just had an interesting experience advertising for a new receptionist . Just put the add on our Facebook page and had 70 CVs in 3 days . About 10 excellent applicants. Had a reach of 25 000 people locally. Cost £0. [/quote]

Wow, that's remarkable. Really! Of course there are more people available to work as a receptionist in practice than there are veterinary surgeons looking for a job. Still, you must have a lot of followers to get a response like that.

It's why we feed all jobs from VetSurgeon and VetNurse out onto facebook (and others), and include the 'Share & Reward' system to maximise the effect:

https://www.facebook.com/vetnursejobs/

https://www.facebook.com/vetsurgeonjobs/

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:57:33 GMT

Why should locum agencies get any sort of discount at all? If a practice finds a locum through this route will they get a discount from the locum agency? I doubt it.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

niall morton — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 01:11:55 GMT

complete agreement. I've yet to be able to get an agency to get me a locum when i want one. scotland seems to be a black whole in the locum market

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

rhmrcvs — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 00:05:36 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]So I guess the point is a) whether it makes no difference what price I offer locum advertising at, because the majority would still want to use an agency for the certainty and security they provide,[/quote]

My experience is that there has been no certainty or security with recruiting via agencies, far from it.

Vastly better to recruit directly for full time , part time or locum staff.

Ditto the post re fb ad for receptionist.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

grumpyoldman — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 23:10:49 GMT

Just had an interesting experience advertising for a new receptionist . Just put the add on our Facebook page and had 70 CVs in 3 days . About 10 excellent applicants. Had a reach of 25 000 people locally. Cost £0.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

James Laidlaw — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 21:52:58 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]It also occurred to me that if I offered a much lower price for advertising for a locum position, people might start advertising for locums to fill permanent positions! But I suspect the risk of that is pretty small. [/quote]

This is something that happens a lot. My last 6 years in the UK were 3 "locum" jobs...

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:54:36 GMT

[quote user="rhmrcvs"]

Hi,

If you are going to have to discount for the agencies to advertise locum roles why not just discount the cost to practices and allow the ad to stay on longer ?

The cost will be vastly lower than the huge agency fees that practices are charged.[/quote]

That is an option I have been thinking about too!

Two things about that, though:

I presume the circumstances under which you hire a locum are often much more to meet an immediate need. I presume that if you ring an agency, you're pretty much guaranteed to get the locum when you want them, whereas advertising does not provide that guarantee.

Whatever I charged for advertising for a locum (even if it was free), there is something I cannot do (which an agency can) which is offer the backup if the locum who responded to your advert falls through.

It also occurred to me that if I offered a much lower price for advertising for a locum position, people might start advertising for locums to fill permanent positions! But I suspect the risk of that is pretty small.

So I guess the point is a) whether it makes no difference what price I offer locum advertising at, because the majority would still want to use an agency for the certainty and security they provide, and b) if practices WOULD rather advertise direct, then what do you think would be a fair price to advertise for a locum (given that you might only be hiring a locum for one day, or a week).

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

rhmrcvs — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 10:16:58 GMT

Hi,

If you are going to have to discount for the agencies to advertise locum roles why not just discount the cost to practices and allow the ad to stay on longer ?

The cost will be vastly lower than the huge agency fees that practices are charged.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 09:18:08 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]My only thought is there are some very good and some very unscrupulous referral agencies operating, so there could be a negative aspect to some of them. I suppose that this could probably apply to veterinary practices too, so probably not a big issue?[/quote]

Well, in order to make it financially viable, I'd need to give agencies a discount on the cost of advertising for locums, and I guess the quick solution to that one is that if I get loads of complaints about an agency (either the service or if they make unsolicited 'spammy' approaches to members), I'll just remove their discount!

Unless anyone has any big objections, I think I'll try it out gently for a trial period on VetNurse first and allow agencies to post locum jobs only, setting the price at a level which prevents them from flooding the boards. See how it goes and review in a month or two.

RE: Advice needed about job advertising

James Laidlaw — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:34:14 GMT

My only thought is there are some very good and some very unscrupulous referral agencies operating, so there could be a negative aspect to some of them. I suppose that this could probably apply to veterinary practices too, so probably not a big issue?