Certificates, and where to start

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Judith Archbold — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 08:39:04 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

If you want academic rigour and true change in approach then certavp or bsava. If you want letters then the other commercial rubbish. Imo.

[/quote]I think this is a bit harsh David. I did an Improve GP cert course in emergency medicine and surgery, and if nothing else it was a really good refresher course. I appreciate that standards of teaching and content of courses vary hugely but I want to stick-up for this particular course.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 01:39:01 GMT

Eilidh - if you describe yourself as an 'all rounder' then the CertAVP offerings are for you. Over a 10 year registration period you can go on and collect modules and selections of modules to create designations. You can do the designated cert and even then keep adding modules to further your learning or add further designations. It's quite an exciting time as the accreditation and back up from universities mean the points can then be transferred into a masters degree or even used towards the beginning of a doctorate.

I really like the system and believe that it has made us better as a practice. We do practice to a higher level and have conversations now that we simply wouldn't have had 5 years ago. It's made us all challenge each other and our own beliefs in what we think and how we do things. I do think it translates as better care and I think more work. It's difficult to attribute specific financial improvement to the academic learning. Interestingly I'm not sure clients really understood what it means to be a 'certificate holder' but they really seem to grasp the concept of an 'advanced practitioner'.

The synoptic exam was challenging but very fair. I had 2 internal, 1 external and an RCVS observer. The hour really flew by, I positively enjoyed myself. Even if you are doing it for your own learning - I would strongly encourage you to go on and get the designated qualification - it's yours for life. They can't take that away. In terms of pay rise - as a boss now (was an assistant when I started) I think it will depend who pays for the training - you can't expect the practice to pay for the CPD, give you extra time off AND give you a pay rise straight away. If one of our assistants went down this route I'd pay for the course on a 2 year claw back and then once that was clear would give an increased pay rise (depending on performance).

I would say it is the best thing I did to reinvigorate my practice; its easy to find yourself just going through the motions. I will warn you that once you get back into further study it becomes kind of addictive in the hunger for knowledge. I completed my cert in 2014 and then signed up for a full masters (not using the cert points) - my wife did her sheep cert and she is starting a different masters in September.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

David Mills — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 00:02:38 GMT

If you want academic rigour and true change in approach then certavp or bsava. If you want letters then the other commercial rubbish. Imo.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

KathW — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 19:34:21 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

[quote user="KathW"]

Did you do a designated certificate Anthony?

I'm doing the C module with Liverpool at the moment- but am wondering whether to do the synoptic exam at the end of them as well. Wondering if anyone has any hints about how the exam is pitched.

[/quote]

Unless it's changed, if you want to be eligible for AP status, you have to do the synoptic part.

[/quote]

I realise that and may well do it but at the moment am "happy" just with the study and learning for my own benefit.

Probably do need to think about the future benefits as well as the additional stress of anorher exam.

How many people out there got or negotiated a pay rise after achieving their cert AVP and how many after gaining AP status.

Has anyone shown an increase in income for the practice after gaining a cert AVP and AP status? There should be a benefit both from the person gaining the qualification and hopefully via other vets in the practice by dissemination of knowledge.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Iain Richards — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 19:15:37 GMT

[quote user="KathW"]

Did you do a designated certificate Anthony?

I'm doing the C module with Liverpool at the moment- but am wondering whether to do the synoptic exam at the end of them as well. Wondering if anyone has any hints about how the exam is pitched.

[/quote]

Unless it's changed, if you want to be eligible for AP status, you have to do the synoptic part.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Rach — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:09:43 GMT

Hi, I did the BSAVA medicine certificate and really enjoyed it. I chose it over the Royal college one as, rightly or wrongly, I felt it was more structured and offered more teaching, which I thought would suit me. At the time I thought it was expensive, but looking at day CPD courses now post certificate, I release that actually for the money the amount of lecture time (20 days) is really good value. On top of that there are webinars, forums and (significantly) discounted BSAVA congress. I would be very tempted to do another if they did a topic that I fancied (well imaging really). I would suggest that if you do decide to go for a certificate to do it with a view to obtaining the qualification, I understand the 'I would be doing it for myself, not for the letters' view, but I don't believe that I would have put as much time to it, and therefore gained as much if I hadn't had an end-goal to focus on, other bits of life would have taken priority instead. Writing the casebook was useful too, it is difficult to critique your own work initially, but was valuable, and very achievable in general practice, they don't want stuff that has only be seen once before, they want cases you are seeing on a regular basis, that have been well managed.

Feel free to message me if you would like more info.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

KathW — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 17:15:06 GMT

Same choices as me.

Good luck!

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 14:51:12 GMT

[quote user="KathW"]

Did you do a designated certificate Anthony?

I'm doing the C module with Liverpool at the moment- but am wondering whether to do the synoptic exam at the end of them as well. Wondering if anyone has any hints about how the exam is pitched.

[/quote]

Yes, I did the 3 Medicine C modules with Liverpool and did an anaesthesia/analgesia module as my 4th. Doing my synoptic in March 2017.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

KathW — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 14:43:11 GMT

The reason I decided to do a certificate was partly for the intellectual challenge and party to get some quality CPD that updated and expanded my knowledge. As a bonus it has also taught me a new way to learn and update my knowledge about cases and conditions in the future.

I felt this was preferable to ticking off hours with CPD that didn't add much to what I already knew. It's a lot harder work though bit I'm enjoying the challenge.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

KathW — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 14:33:20 GMT

Did you do a designated certificate Anthony?

I'm doing the C module with Liverpool at the moment- but am wondering whether to do the synoptic exam at the end of them as well. Wondering if anyone has any hints about how the exam is pitched.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Iain Richards — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 13:35:12 GMT

A good decision - "something to keep me interested and motivated". I've throughly enjoyed my post grad certs, two old style RCVS and (results willing) a Masters. The latter was a well structured, entirely on line course, the former relied on me working through the syllabus (essentially learning the most recent anaesthesia and sheep texts). There is no doubt that the on-line modules were excellent and I suspect the Cert AVP courses at Liverpool and Edinburgh will be in a similar vein. One huge advantage about going through a university is access to all the on-line libraries, so research is easier. I'd go for the A and B and look to make it imporve your overall abilities as a general vet. Then you'll have time to consider if you want to add an -ology to the end of it. It's also worth looking at soem of the on-line masters courses that are available.

Good luck, enjoy it, keep an open mind, but a healthy scepticism

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 10:13:56 GMT

I did my certAVP through Liverpool. Well taught course, very structured (which I liked, as I need deadlines to motivate me) and lots of good lectures and suggested reading for each part of every module. I'm not going to lie, at times it was a slog, but I think that was because of outside influences.

The A and B modules are a bit annoying, but the C modules are great. I have learned a lot from them and it has changed the way I practice. The certAVP also has the added benefit of being able to take breaks between modules if you feel you need one (I didn't, just worked straight through and completed in 2 years). It can also be done online only, meaning you don't have to use up your CPD days on a once-monthly trip somewhere.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

J G Wray — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:26:15 GMT

Doesn't studying for a certificate narrow and deepen your knowledge rather than broaden it?

Oh I shouldn't have said it

RE: Certificates, and where to start

J G Wray — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:24:30 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]as far as referrals go I think the RCVS frown on anyone accepting " referrals" unless they are a registered Specialist...[/quote]

That is not so. A veterinary surgeon is free to refer a case to any other veterinary surgeon they choose.

[/quote]

Including homeopaths... Oh I shouldn't have said it

How can a faceless thing frown?

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 01:51:49 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]as far as referrals go I think the RCVS frown on anyone accepting " referrals" unless they are a registered Specialist...[/quote]

That is not so. A veterinary surgeon is free to refer a case to any other veterinary surgeon they choose.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Judith Archbold — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:55:32 GMT

It's worth considering a GP Cert course with Improve. They last 1or 2 years and are taught modules. I did the GPcert emergency medicine and surgery course and found it really useful and interesting.

my certAVP was much more of a slog! In the end I did the B and C modules via Liverpool Uni as it was part taught / structured modules...but I takes time to build up a caselog if doing surgery... And I guess medicine too.

as far as referrals go I think the RCVS frown on anyone accepting " referrals" unless they are a registered Specialist...except in ophthalmology as the certificate is no longer available to study for.

why don't you do a one year GP Cert....get cracking as I think some of them start in September. Then if you enjoy studying again you can enrol for a certAVP in a few months and start to build up a caselog.

have a look at the different modules taught by Edinburgh, Liverpool etc. And see what takes your fancy.

at the end of the day it's only letters after your name and they pretty much mean nothing to the clients. Hence I decided to study using mainly taught modules so I felt like I was actually improving my knowledge and technical skills to use in my day to day job...rather than just going through the motions just to get a certificate.

hope this waffle of thoughts is useful.

RE: Certificates, and where to start

Liz w — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:19:41 GMT

I guess one of the main decisions is whether you actually want the qualification or whether you just want to organise your studying to cover all the gaps in your knowledge. Can't really help could be in a similar position.