The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:09:17 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] You can't refuse to see them.[/quote]

Er, yes you can, if it's clearly not desperate, if you want to.

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]You can make your ooh consultations more expensive than those of the corporate ooh provider[/quote] That would be difficult!

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:43:54 GMT

You can't refuse to see them. You can make your ooh consultations more expensive than those of the corporate ooh provider, and then give your clients discounts. Discounts are legal, surcharges are not. People who are looking for the cheapest option will stick to the corporate ooh provider. People who genuinely don't want to make the animal travel will probably change to you permanently

Wynne

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:40:44 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Yes, but you'll get swamped by lots of ooh calls from clients of the corporates who don't want to travel to their ooh provider.[/quote]

Yes, and you can either politely tell them they have to go to you-know-who, or you can deal with them, charge a hefty ooh premium (to which you are well entitled) and still be hugely less expensive than you-know-who, and maybe gain a client.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Robin Grimmer — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:12:44 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The growth of corporates in numbers really has made expansion and own OOH pretty impractical! Not much choice but to join them by using someone else OOH's.[/quote]

On the contrary, another choice would be to emphasise the difference between you and them and not give away money by contracting out "OOH" work.

[/quote]

Yes, but you'll get swamped by lots of ooh calls from clients of the corporates who don't want to travel to their ooh provider.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:49:39 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The growth of corporates in numbers really has made expansion and own OOH pretty impractical! Not much choice but to join them by using someone else OOH's.[/quote]

On the contrary, another choice would be to emphasise the difference between you and them and not give away money by contracting out "OOH" work.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Bob Russell — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:27:53 GMT

When I set up here 15 years ago I expected to do my own OOH's. I also expected the practice to grow to allow a second member of staff. It still could perhaps but vagaries of bank funding has always made that too high risk a step to take.

A one in two rota in a small practice is not that onerous.

The growth of corporates in numbers really has made expansion and own OOH pretty impractical! Not much choice but to join them by using someone else OOH's.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:01:17 GMT

If that had been a middle of the night emergency, fair enough. If not, I'd have told her to go home, get washed and dressed, and then return for a later appointment.

Some schools have taken the step of forbidding parents from wearing nightclothes when bringing their brats to school. I can't see that Royal College can seriously object to us imposing a similar dress code for owners of non-emergency cases.

Wynne

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Mike Dale — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:10:08 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

That made me laugh into my cup of coffee, which is now mostly on my computer screen!

[/quote]

Sorry Arlo!

Anyway, before I ever put my trainers on I had a client yesterday arrive in her pyjamas with her dog for a routine vaccination! So perhaps in this modern world it is not so difficult to uphold some form of exemplary dress standard after all. I'd have looked professional in a dressing gown.

They were ill fitting pyjamas at that and feeling somewhat "outnumbered," as it were, I hastily fetched a nurse to help restrain the tightly clutched spaniel pup and preserve propriety. She was fortunately a lady nurse. Now I'm wondering if I ought to keep a dashcam in the cons room.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Anthony Todd — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:37:47 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Pointing"]Now Anthony - that's not a kind thing to say. [/quote]

Sorry mate this got omited from my post, should put the right slant on it.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Paul Carwardine — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:40:44 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

This is such a big subject and we will all have our own opinions on this. However, I do have a couple of questions for you:

- do you think that the behaviour and expectations of the general public have changed since the 1970's, and do you think this could impact on the feasibility of continuing using this business model? (Afterall, at that time all shops were shut after 5pm on weekdays and closed all day Sunday, while most professionals were also closed most of Saturday.)

- do you think it is acceptable to work for 2 days without sleep?

- do you think that the changes in the gender balance in the veterinary profession (from predominantly male to predominantly female) combined with the change in economic activity in women in the last 50 years (more women are now working full time, with 43 per cent of women with children under five working by the 1990s, compared with only a quarter in 1973 - and this figure has likely risen in last 15 years) has impacted on working patterns. Afterall, the vast majority of the men who worked the type of rota you describe will have had an 'unemployed' wife at home.

Just wondered.

[/quote]

Certainly things have changed since the 1970's but many are not happy with them. Since retirement I have been working in the NHS (in a voluntary capacity) and I can confirm that many patients I speak to are unhappy with the service they get fron their GP's.

Of course I don't think it is acceptable to work for 48 hrs without sleep. The practice I referred to in my post had what might be described as a 'night shift' the staff so employed could sleep during the day.

I think the change in 'gender balance' does have a bearing on this - and also the perceived security risk to women working on their own at night. True also that 50 years ago most veterinary surgeon's wives were full time 'home makers' rather than career orientated. To return to the medical profession many GP's are now women and have family committments which result in them working part time adding to the overall shortage of doctors.

I recently attended an NHS Clinical Commissioning Group meeting where a local GP told me he found it virtually impossible to recruit doctors for his practice willing to work full time let alone 'unsocial hours'.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:57:01 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

A Proustian memory

[/quote]

Although much better than a futuristic 1984 world IMHO

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

J G Wray — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:10:30 GMT

[quote user="Paul Carwardine"]

Of course I belong to the old school where one was ( and indeed expected ) to be on call 24/7 albeit on a rota basis. At one time in the late 70's I was employed by a large London practice to do night home emergency visits whilst a colleague was available at the Practice's main hospital to receive patients out of hours.

To me that is the type of service a caring profession should offer.

[/quote]

A Proustian memory

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:34:03 GMT

[quote user="Paul Carwardine"]

At one time in the late 70's I was employed by a large London practice to do night home emergency visits whilst a colleague was available at the Practice's main hospital to receive patients out of hours.

To me that is the type of service a caring profession should offer.

[/quote]

This is such a big subject and we will all have our own opinions on this. However, I do have a couple of questions for you:

- do you think it is acceptable to work for 2 days without sleep?

Just wondered.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:02:47 GMT

Hear hear Paul

Wynne

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Stephen Pointing — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:42:48 GMT

Now Anthony - that's not a kind thing to say. You'd be surprised at what the population gets up to in the evenings down here! We lost our one and only bakery a couple of years ago so if you don't make your own bread you have to buy imported white or brown from the UK. I know where Francisco is coming from though. Amongst my many varied jobs down here I often have to go on board Spanish crewed fishing vessels and occasionally I'll stay on board for lunch with the officers. The bread served with the meal is home made by the cook on board and is usually delicious.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Paul Carwardine — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:41:32 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

I disagree. Many corporate practices use OOH services which makes it no different from independent choosing that model.

[/quote]

Then perhaps if more independents chose not to adopt the OOH sevice model their clients would see an advantage over corporate competitors and be tempted to remain loyal.

I fear that our profession is following in the footsteps of the medical profession where GP's shut shop at 7pm and are not available over weekends and Bank holidays - hence the problem in hospital A&E departments.

To me that is the type of service a caring profession should offer.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Bob Russell — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:41:01 GMT

Yes I do make my own bread!

The use of OOH services has really allowed many corporates to exist. It controls the cost of running the practice without severely affecting profit. I doubt many practices make a profit from OOH although they might if they charged as one OOH group does. This was the final straw for me. An £800 bill for a 1½" wound!

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Anthony Todd — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:22:18 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Pointing"]

Have you tried making your own? You know exactly what the ingredients are and I find bread making extremely therapeutic. It must be something to do with the kneading. I can understand why cats look slightly spaced out when they are "kneading" on a blanket or the like.

[/quote]

Yeah, well, the night-life in the Falklands won't be that exciting so I can understand your needing something else, but breadmaking didn't rise quickly to mind.....

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Stephen Pointing — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:00:17 GMT

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:46:48 GMT

[quote user="Paul Carwardine"]

Perhaps the reason why some independent practices are struggling is that many no longer provide a 24/7 cover for their clients.

[/quote]

I disagree. Many corporate practices use OOH services which makes it no different from independent choosing that model.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Paul Carwardine — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:41:04 GMT

If I dare stray from the fascinating debate on where to obtain the best bread and return to the original topic.

Perhaps the reason why some independent practices are struggling is that many no longer provide a 24/7 cover for their clients. One local practice refers 'emergencies' to an out of hours' veterinary clinic some 20 miles away. If an owner lives on the wrong side of the practice this can mean a journey of up to 30 miles. Add to that that the owner may not own a car this can create real and expensive problems. Not being able to go to your "own vet" when in real need is hardly going to encourage loyality.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Anthony Todd — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:55:01 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]the best bread we find comes from Lidl![/quote]

[sigh] after pages and pages we get to the point which is that good vets are good, and not because of what they label themselves but just 'cos they are. They also have the "art" of practice which, as usual, has been either ignored or sneered at.

BTW, the best bread at the best restaurant I go to came from Waitrose so multiples can compete but only if they have the best products, ie vet. surgeons.

( all of you happy now)

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Bob Russell — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:44:00 GMT

Unfortunately the fresh bread analogy is not a promising one. We have two local bakers that are trying to sell (no takers) and the best bread we find comes from Lidl!

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:33:11 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

You buy bread at Tesco's and they've got all of the above.

... and they're all cr*p.

[/quote]

Serves you right for shopping at Tesco.

RE: The impact of changing public attitudes on veterinary surgeons' perception of self-worth.

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:28:38 GMT

Interesting stuff in this week's episode of the Veterinary Business Video show (174) John Sheridan - an interview with an Australian practice owner on the subject of discounted neutering / spays. And an American business consultant talking about something which sort of touches on the dress code / behaviour thing.

http://goo.gl/PXOh6I

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Independent bakeries don't exist anymore round here. [/quote] Guess it depends on how affluent the area.

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]... and they're all cr*p.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more!