Dealing with clients

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:28:01 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Alistair Graham-Evans"]So I told him not to bother getting the cat out, escorted him through the full waiting room to the front door and told him to go away and never come back as he had destroyed any trust before he started.[/quote]

All fine if you're one of the bosses, if it's a green new grad faced with this I can see it being rather more stressful for them?

[/quote]

There is a point when a number of things come together in your life. You are an adult and have been for some time. You have a degree from five years of University study. You have been admitted into a profession. You are recognised by society as having adult capacity and you enjoy an enviable education and are privileged to be part of a profession. There are plenty of adults and some have a university education. Fewer are professionals.

So, along comes a time when you are faced with challenge, adversity or even failure. Here's the thing. You are not exempt from the stresses of life any more than any other person, particularly if it relates to a field you have made a choice to be part of and where society has agreed to educate you and place a trust in your capacity.

There's nothing new about this. You are not exceptional now or historically and you really have a choice whether to determine your course. Your life is for you to run if you want to.

Finding out how to become assertive in the right context will help you get what you want because life, professional and otherwise will include stress.

RE: Dealing with clients

grumpyoldman — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 23:02:50 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Perhaps with fading testosterone levels the hormone " Assertivosterone " takes over. I wonder if these levels go up with the menopause?[/quote]

I think its more likely that assertiveness increases with your bank balance and pension fund irrespective of gender, it just happens that most of the RFPs with good examples of both are probably male and middle aged . It is nice to be in a position to just be able to just say ,"actually I do not need to put up with this because I do not need your business and your money I just do this job because i like it. Now please feel free to go elsewhere".

RE: Dealing with clients

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 22:05:10 GMT

Agree but if a new grad reported that client behaviour to the boss I would like to think they would intervene in some way to support the new vet and allieviate the stress. Yet again comes down to good management.

RE: Dealing with clients

Rob Loxley — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:04:04 GMT

All fine if you're one of the bosses, if it's a green new grad faced with this I can see it being rather more stressful for them?

RE: Dealing with clients

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:02:14 GMT

Thanks for your assessment of my hormonal function Dr Wray.

The solicitor incident happened at least 20 years ago which leads me to fear for the future............

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 05:55:48 GMT

We have an expression in our family for older people who behave like this in public - we say they're being a bit "frontal lobe-y". This now includes both my mother and my mother in law and means in practical terms they cope very poorly and alienate formal help which is trying.

I see some of this disinhibition on this site......

The manner of dealing with the solicitor makes a good point. Assertive behaviour early saves trouble later. There is a consequence however. That organisation I cannot mention will tell you that they get most of their complaints about older male RFPs. These are the group who I would suggest have been around for a while and know what the boundaries of appropriate client behaviours are, the boundaries which allow for a constructive relationship to provide care at the best level possible-and are prepared to be assertive when a client oversteps the mark. Perhaps with fading testosterone levels the hormone " Assertivosterone " takes over. I wonder if these levels go up with the menopause?

As for solicitors in general then we all know why sharks ignore them in the water- professional courtesy.

RE: Dealing with clients

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 02:26:00 GMT

I remember an elderly lady who was demanding and quite rude. Old GSD with chronic osteoarthritis and bilateral cruciate ruptures. Before anyone asks, I only saw the dog when all was hopelessly advanced so never had the opportunity to do anything surgically or help earlier. She regularly brought the dog in, had a ramp built for the dog to get in and out of the car. The dog was obese and she always complained about the cost of medication. The other staff were fed up with her and I was the only vet who would see her. Point is one day I had to visit and on her home territory found a lonely sad lady in much pain herself who was in tears begging me to operate and she would pay anything if I could save her dog. When out of the house she was anxious and worried and her coping mechanism was to lash out and grumble ( which explains her social isolation!). The dog was her whole life and it was a grim time there seeing her physical and emotional state. There is often a reason for behaviour and bad things lurking behind the outward facade.

On the other hand I had a new client who was a solicitor with attitude. When asked politely by the receptionist whether he would like to take a seat he replied "No". Then placed a cat basket on the consult table and said if I made any errors with his cat he would sue me. I asked if it was an emergency and was it's life in danger to which he again replied "No". So I told him not to bother getting the cat out, escorted him through the full waiting room to the front door and told him to go away and never come back as he had destroyed any trust before he started.

It's a strange world.

RE: Dealing with clients

Bob Russell — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:26:22 GMT

Part our strength (as a small practice) over other practices is to deal with the more 'odd' and 'difficult' client. Most can be converted with a little effort.

Some are not worth bothering with and marching orders are a good idea!

RE: Dealing with clients

Kara Gibson — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:20:38 GMT

I'm inclined to agree that for many of these difficult clients no matter what you do they are dissatisfied and if it were up to me one or two of them would be politely asked to take their business elsewhere. However I have had the odd difficult client that I've worked through their issues and they've ended up becoming incredibly bonded to the practice and myself with a much better attitude. I try and remember that we don't always know what's going on in peoples lives so I will give them the benefit of the doubt - but that only extends so far!

RE: Dealing with clients

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 18:02:30 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]'thick posh'[/quote]

You mean "Highgate Housewives"...

Patient [moaning] "You don't know what's wrong with me!"

Doc. Martin "Yes I do; you're very annoying!"

[/quote]Round our way it's the ones who've just bought a pad in the country.

RE: Dealing with clients

Anthony Todd — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:14:54 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]'thick posh'[/quote]

You mean "Highgate Housewives"...

Patient [moaning] "You don't know what's wrong with me!"

Doc. Martin "Yes I do; you're very annoying!"

RE: Dealing with clients

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 15:04:46 GMT

There are serial moaners. The worst type of these are what I call the 'thick posh'. Had one of these recently, rolling in money but thick as ****. Used to having everything on a plate their way. I won't bore you with details but suffice to say they were a major PIA and were always late as they thought the world revolved around them.

RE: Dealing with clients

Julie Innes — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 14:32:26 GMT

I'm afraid I'm with Mr Grumpy on this one. OK, if it's a genuine complaint, but those are truly far and few between, in my experience. Last person who kept whining at me (about the fact she was told she would have to wait, having turned up without an appointment in the morning, for a dog with a broken toenail) and who threatened that maybe she would have to find another vet, was asked to please do that. She was a serial moaner, and experience tells me people like that will never be happy, and will always upset everyone in the practice, so I told her politely that I thought it would be best if she did find another vet as I found her very difficult! She seemed surprised! Life is too short to put up with those clients. Maybe she'll behave better at her new vets (although I doubt it)

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:01:38 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="J G Wray"] Do you mean that if you ever were dobbed in for your behaviour, you would have used this as an explanation? [/quote]Basically yes.....[/quote]

And have your actions changed anything?

RE: Dealing with clients

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:37:13 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"] Do you mean that if you ever were dobbed in for your behaviour, you would have used this as an explanation? [/quote]Basically yes. I had considered using it to launch a complaint but knowing how toothless the RCVS has been over other complaints I've made re unprofessional behaviour I considered it a waste of time.

[quote user="J G Wray"] Did it ever occur to you that your advice to the lady mole should have been take it to the RCVS as a member of the public[/quote]Yes but like most people she didn't want the aggro and had moved to Cyprus by this time.

[quote user="J G Wray"]Why do you think these were the only reasons for them leaving and why did they not "stand up and be counted"?[/quote]Ditto above (sans the Cyprus bit). I have verbal testament from one of the others that this was the reason she left plus the bullying for daring to challenge. The other two did not want to get involved.

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:16:32 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Dr Atkinson's version of events is from information supplied by a spy in the camp. [/quote]

You talk to moles? What about water voles, badgers and ahem toads?

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]She also gave examples of a lot of other poor treatment and patient deaths and wrote a sworn testament which I was prepared to present to the RCVS if it went that far.[/quote]

Eh? Do you mean that if you ever were dobbed in for your behaviour, you would have used this as an explanation? Did it ever occur to you that your advice to the lady mole should have been take it to the RCVS as a member of the public, because it's RCVS' job, not yours, to deal with this sort of stuff? RCVS "justice", not Atkinson "justice"

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] A number of other nurses (3) also left this practice because of the poor standards but were not prepared to stand up and be counted if it went to DC.[/quote]

Uh huh. Why do you think these were the only reasons for them leaving and why did they not "stand up and be counted"?

RE: Dealing with clients

grumpyoldman — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 21:34:38 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I like it, but what happens if you're dealing with a kn*bhead who starts reeling off a long list of demands? Not trying to be difficult or argue, just not sure what I would do if they reacted like that.[/quote]

That is an excellent point and something that has happened to us a few times , depends on the client and the problem but often Dirty Harry works a lot better than Neville Chamberlain.

If asked about other local practices the standard reply is I do not know them, do not know anything about them really so could not possibly comment. At least that way if the RCVS writes to you and asks you to comment on something you can just play with a flat bat.

RE: Dealing with clients

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 17:23:23 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

The best defusing approach someone taught me was, simply:

"What can we do to make this right?"

[/quote]

I like it, but what happens if you're dealing with a kn*bhead who starts reeling off a long list of demands? Not trying to be difficult or argue, just not sure what I would do if they reacted like that.

RE: Dealing with clients

Anthony Todd — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 17:05:11 GMT

The best defusing approach someone taught me was, simply:

"What can we do to make this right?"

RE: Dealing with clients

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 10:39:56 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

We only have Dr Atkinson's version of events.

[/quote]Dr Atkinson's version of events is from information supplied by a spy in the camp. She also gave examples of a lot of other poor treatment and patient deaths and wrote a sworn testament which I was prepared to present to the RCVS if it went that far. A number of other nurses (3) also left this practice because of the poor standards but were not prepared to stand up and be counted if it went to DC.

[quote user="J G Wray"]How can you possibly know exactly how another practice behaves in all circumstances?[/quote]Sadly you don't and what's worse most of their clients don't if their pets die these vets are also usually the ones with the best bedside manner and purveyors of bovine dung!

RE: Dealing with clients

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 09:56:09 GMT

One I have started using for clients that don't like to make a decision because of the possibility of risks - 'Oh I don't want Fluffy to have an anaesthetic because of the possible risks' or potetnial risks of side effects of drugs or complications of surgery is:

One of the biggest risk factors for dying, is living.

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:34:34 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]It sounds to me this second practice was happy to cut the corners but then didn't want anyone to know about it; I would have thought that was more unprofessional.[/quote]

We only have Dr Atkinson's version of events.

How can you possibly know exactly how another practice behaves in all circumstances?

Oh and John 8:7

RE: Dealing with clients

Niall Taylor — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:09:43 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Don't do this. Be professional.[/quote]

Surely Martin's response to this client was entirely professional.

He made no accusations whatever about the practice in question, simply suggested a few questions for the mutual client to ask which she may not have considered previously when comparing practices. If practices are happy to cut corners in order to undercut the opposition they must be prepared to justify their position.

It sounds to me this second practice was happy to cut the corners but then didn't want anyone to know about it; I would have thought that was more unprofessional.

Niall

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:13:04 GMT

This business about price comparison and challenging an owner to make a choice makes me uneasy.

We publish our prices. I've mentioned this before, and you can go on our Website and see what we charge - and we stick to it.

We are also clear about what sort of service we are providing. Staff are also clear about why we are charging what we do.

If we are challenged on price, and this is a rare event, then we can point to the value our Healthy Pet Club offers with a 15% discount on standard prices and more besides.

We do not get into a discussion about how other vets charge or practice. We think that if we cannot articulate the value we give then there is a problem with what we are saying, not what others say or do.

We are not going to ask an owner to compare a £50 car and a £5000 car. That's an implicit criticism of another's standards and we're not in that game.

RE: Dealing with clients

J G Wray — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 11:38:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I frequently do! A while ago a charitable client was complaining that I charge more for a cat neutering than the cheapo practice up the road. I suggested they went and asked him if he intubated and monitored all his routine ops and put them in a hospital cage to recover rather than on the floor because he is so busy he doesn't have enough cages (which I knew he didn't). She did just that which resulted in said vet storming round for a row and threatening me with reporting me to the RCVS for trying to steal a client. I suggested he might like to do just that because he would dig a nice big hole for himself when I presented the evidence against him which included plenty more damning stuff. Needless to say he didn't and we haven't exactly got on well since.[/quote]

Don't do this. Be professional.