Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Bob Russell — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:13:06 GMT

Not sure whether these papers take into account the unfortunate fact that neutered dogs tend to be fatter therefore wear and tear on joints could be increased.
If this is the case then it is the management post-neutering that is more important than the age it was done.

I have spent 8½ years worrying that our large GSD was neutered at six months (was pretty standard then). Thankfully no orthopaedic issues so far (touch wood).

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Marina Goodchild — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:58:13 GMT

Have you checked RCVS Register

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Allison Gleadhill — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:03:15 GMT

Not that paper. Very dubious about the cancer claims.

Sorry it s not JAVMA but Vet Rec online 16/5/16 Hart Hart Thignen Willits. Presumably will be out in paper copy soon. I think I saw it as I follow JAVMA on Facebook & that's where I stumbled across it (can I count this as reflecting on my CPD even though it wasn't planned....)

the numbers aren't huge & it's only GSDs. In the references there is a 2009 JAVMA paper looking at the different tibial plateau slopes in early neutered dogs (<6 months) The fact that there are so many dogs rupturing their cruciates and it can be sucsessfully treated by TPLO etc to normalise their tibial plateau slope does make me wonder why the slope was abnormal & putting stress on the ACL in the first place.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

David Mills — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 23:08:08 GMT

[quote user="Allison Gleadhill"]There's a recent paper in JAVMA showing increased likelihood of cruciate disease in dogs neutered early - under 6 months dramatic increase in incidence, under 1 year some increase. [/quote]

Hmm if you mean this paper

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055937

I'm not convinced.

1. Only American Golden Retrievers

2. Incidence of CCL is very low regardless - only 10 male dogs (/248) and 13 (/238) in females. To talk of percentage increases and find statistical significance with these numbers is, erm, optimistic.

3. Authors specifically say cannot be extrapolated.

4. Referral population.

To start talking of increased risk, we need to talk of absolute risk, and we need numbers in the 1000s (or 10,000s).

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Allison Gleadhill — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:52:06 GMT

There's a recent paper in JAVMA showing increased likelihood of cruciate disease in dogs neutered early - under 6 months dramatic increase in incidence, under 1 year some increase. Something to do with different effects of early neutering on the cranial & caudal bits of the proximal tibial growth plate & this changing the slope of the tibial plateau. I've generally preferred after a season in dogs that are going to be over 25kg and am now wondering if I should get owners (at least of Rotties, labs & G Rets) to wait a bit longer...

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:53:46 GMT

Two observations here. 1) Clients who buy designer mongrels deserve to be ripped off and I have no sympathy for them. 2) If I had a breeder who ask me to spay her pups at that age I would tell her to take a hike. Mind you I have no breeder clients because they've all gone hiking already!

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Mike Nikolaou — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:27:11 GMT

I have already warned the owners that I would be worried about a "juvenile vulva" persisting in the future and giving cause of UTIs - of which the dog has already had one.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Mike Nikolaou — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:23:54 GMT

My concern is that this is done for the breeder's benefit, whilst increasing unreasonably the surgical/anaesthetic risks. In an RSPCA/charity setup there may be an argument in thus reducing unwanted pregnancies with the trade-off of increasing procedure risks, but when someone is parting with a substantial amount of money you would expect the puppy's health would come first.

If we are advising owners that we'd rather not spay their bitch if it is in oestrus, doesn't it make sense that we also wouldn't spey a 4-5 week old dog?

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Aurelia Verdin — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 16:20:12 GMT

I had an Australian Labradoodle in for it's first vacc a couple of weeks ago - had been castrated at 2wks old which did surprise me, the owner had nice sheets of paper telling her this was a good thing.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:17:36 GMT

We're saying the same thing Rob

I remember seeing many clients 20 years ago with entire pedigree dogs who had been told by the breeder that they weren't allowed to breed and if they did, they owned the puppies. I thought it was outrageous. It now seems this behaviour is a more 'permanant' solution

Neil

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:47:16 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Replaces 'breeding rights' I suppose. (Where the breeder stipulated that the new owner couldn't breed and they had first refusal if they did.)

Cynical....moi??

[/quote]

Nope; nothing has convinced me this is anything more than preventing people from having puppies of their own from their dog and/or restricting the supply of these crosses to keep prices high

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 12:41:41 GMT

Replaces 'breeding rights' I suppose. (Where the breeder stipulated that the new owner couldn't breed and they had first refusal if they did.)

Cynical....moi??

Neil

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Sarah Keir — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:51:21 GMT

I have seen a similar case a couple of years ago. A pair of 'Australian Labradoodles' presented for there first vaccinations, already spayed, hair grown back. The owner asked if there would be any health issues and I answered honestly - 'I don't know'. Both dogs were incontinent and on medication before 6 months of age. :-(

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

nikki — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:03:02 GMT

I have also seen an Australian Labradoodle that was already spayed by the time I saw it for its 2nd vacc at 10wks. I was quite shocked as didn't realise anyone was doing it that early and not convinced it's in the dog's best interests.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Linda Filshie — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:02:26 GMT

Oh, and the "Australian labradoodles" that I've seen just looked like stunted labradoodles or largeish cockapoos to me.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Linda Filshie — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:01:16 GMT

Don't have an intrinsic issue with it, but I wonder if the competition commission would

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:40:34 GMT

When you say "spayed by the breeder" I assume you are not meaning literally.............

I don't see an issue myself.

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:03:53 GMT

This does seem to be specific to the 'Australian Labradoodles' (I have yet to ascertain what exactly makes them Australian).

Having said that, in some states in Aussie I believe it is now a legal requirement that pets being rehomed be neutered unless the new owner has a breeding licence. So perhaps the early neutering is what makes them Australian...?

RE: Dog Neutering - how early is too early?

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 16:56:54 GMT

I think Gerry Henry neuters puppies this early, may even be that specific breeder! I've seen it done at RSPCA hospitals on a number of occasions.

What are your concerns about it?