The concept of "Furry Children"

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:39:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Oh Wynne - I'd chose to be a well looked after cow in a UK intensive system over a sacred one in India every time[/quote]

A matter of opinion

Mike Vaughan was one of the original 'great' cattle vets He was president of the BCVA and wrote extensively. (Sadly passed away this year)

I worked with him, and spent many days seeing practice in his Volvo in the 1980's.

He remarked several times that dairy farming was akin to 'slaughtering your teenage daughter' due to the longevity of the average dairy cow.

My father kept his first dairy cow for 16 years out of sentimentality. How many survive that long?

Neil

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:26:35 GMT

[quote user="Anna Battek-Kosiorowska"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I think the bond is much more influenced by emotional need than from economics[/quote]

Totally agree Claire. That was my point saying that the bond is there. It is less likely though people from less privileged economically countries will call their pets their children. They are pets and the bond is strong. Again for different cultures even concept of pets is impossible to understand. Like that Vietnamese guy mentioned.

[/quote]i was just musing that it was the repressed and emotionally deprived British rather than either poor or wealthy cultures that encouraged different value and anthropomorphism as regards pets. Having just seen two small kids being totally ignored in Costa coffee while both parents are on their smart phones I think there are going to be a lot of uncommunicative dog owners in the future.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:38:43 GMT

Oh Wynne - I'd chose to be a well looked after cow in a UK intensive system over a sacred one in India every time.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:36:20 GMT

By the way they're kept in zero grazing systems By the way they're bred to over-produce with the result that they're burned out before their time...............certainly.

Wynne

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:11:16 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I remember a funny conversation in Vietnam with a local chap in broken English where he just could not grasp the concept of keeping pets. He thought it was awful that we allowed animals in to the house at all, saying they, particularly dogs, are dirty. He kept saying "when you eat them?"[/quote]

and the Chinese eat dogs.

Take care with Western standards, just because we think it's wrong, so will other cultures

Look at the cow

From Hinduism today

The only cow-question for Hindus is, “Why don’t more people respect and protect this remarkable creature?” Mahatma Gandhi once said, “One can measure the greatness of a nation and its moral progress by the way it treats its animals. Cow protection to me is not mere protection of the cow. It means protection of all that lives and is helpless and weak in the world. The cow means the entire subhuman world.”

Would an Indian be revolted by how we treat them here? just asking

Neil

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:46:59 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I think the bond is much more influenced by emotional need than from economics[/quote]

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:12:15 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

I remember a funny conversation in Vietnam with a local chap in broken English where he just could not grasp the concept of keeping pets. He thought it was awful that we allowed animals in to the house at all, saying they, particularly dogs, are dirty. He kept saying "when you eat them?"

[/quote]

It is interesting this different cultural view on animal relationships. Many years ago in Mozambique I had a donkey which I used to pull a cart to deliver our farm's milk to the local hospital because we didn't have diesel because of the war. People used to make comments like: Poor donkey can't she see he is tired? Those white people think animals are machines not living beings!

Mariette

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 10:05:08 GMT

Anna , I think the bond is much more influenced by emotional need than from economics. Children in unstable families where they are not necessarily poor but deprived of love and attention may find the family dog or cat the only source of uncomplicated unconditional love. The children with absent parents , new step parents and siblings or with parents addicted to drugs or alcohol may find the unpredictability of the humans in their lives very difficult but can relate to the continuity of the affection from the family pet.

I know my own childhood dog gave me immeasurable comfort as have subsequent dogs through my life.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 09:53:58 GMT

I find that revolting, not funny

Wynne

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Clive Ansell — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 08:24:42 GMT

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 14:08:45 GMT

That is all very thought provoking. It did strike me first time I heard it from a nurse in front of a customer "you OK, mummy is here" to a puppy. It must be very British.

On our forum here we can every now and again witness a dispute over a random subjects and then somewhere there "the Eastern Europeans" appear. Usually not willing to spend money on a treatment proposed. So does it mean it is a cultural difference? They don't consider them their furry babies? I just had a Polish lady crying after her WHW puppy died. Most likely portosystemic shunt, no money for further investigations. Typical picture. But she was crying. So normal human-pet relation.

I think it must be related to the level of an economical wellbeing for a particular society. Those EEs still love their animals, develop that pet owner bond but coming from much tougher background when day to day life is much more difficult they lack that lightness of calling dogs or cats their children. In British environment where everything comes much easier (I know I'm going to be killed here for that but sorry ladies and gentlemen that is truth. I closed my practice in Poland 10 years ago because I couldn't live for £400 monthly. So how much is an unskilled worker earning? I would say life is 15%cheaper than here and petrol is more expensive than here. My dad's house is worth £300K and I would never be able to buy it working as a vet. Sorry for all that details but just to explain what I mean.) it is much easier to have that "emotional flamboyancy". Oh my furry children, I will buy the world for them. If you struggle to buy food or clothes for your human kids you less likely to be thinking that way.

And then we get to that point of not having children (choice, circumstances etc.), having emotions, having financial resources, living comfortable life. Yes, they (pets) do become your furry children.

I really don't know is it good or bad or just neutral.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Bob Russell — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:59:38 GMT

My way of looking at things is:

If the owners are happy, the dogs are happy and the relationship is happy then I don't care what they do or say.

I don't like the term fur babies, coochy coo or any of this because it makes me cringe. I don't consider it wrong and try not to show any reaction. It is a personal judgement not a professional one.

We have clients with real problem dogs (in my opinion) but everyone seems happy with the rather dysfunctional relationship.

Not really one to talk as I have some pretty odd behaving pets and last time I looked two of my children are not talking to me! Bliss!

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Anthony Dennison — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 09:50:20 GMT

I will also use the phrase 'go and find your mum' when speaking to the dog. When going to my other half's parents during the day whilst we work, he 'goes to grandad's'. They also get a present from him at Christmas as a thank you for looking after him all the time.

He is a part of our family, but a pet, not a child. And he does occasionally come and sleep at the bottom of the bed some mornings if we're having a lie in.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Virginia Campbell — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 09:40:25 GMT

I admitted a dog for treatment once, did well, O came to pick up. She said, "Oh his mummy was so worried about him". She owned the dog's dam and had brought it to the pickup consult. I expressed a bit of concern and sympathy for the bitch having been stressed by being separated from the other dog. Confusion ensued...turns out the bitch didn't mind about the other dog's absence...."mummy" was the owner.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 08:15:44 GMT

Hear hear

Wynne

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Braden Collins — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 06:33:46 GMT

I think there's a big difference between calling them fur-babies/mum/dad and actually thinking of them as children.

We normally refer to owners as mum/dad and most clients seem to like it. I can't see a reason to discourage it.

I certainly find that owners who don't have kids at home (empty-nesters, gay couples, unable/not wanting to have kids) can be our best clients, both financially and in terms of levels of pet care. These are often the people who refer to their pets as child-substitutes, but I've never found them a problem.

It may be something which differs with the demographic you target. We target people who want that bit of lovey-dovey stuff. We charge more than our competitors for most things (we need to for 20 minute consultations), but I would rather have a small client base of very dedicated/bonded owners than a pile of clients who worry about price and want the in/out vet care.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

svn — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 00:26:59 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

We have 2 dogs and no children. I refer to them by name or as the girls. That said phrases such as 'go and find your mum' may have been uttered from time to time.....

We are in a hotel in the Lake District as I type this and my wife and 'the girls' may be sleeping on the bed....

[/quote]

You let your dogs on the bed?!! I do hope you realise that this makes them feel dominant, and that they are likely to attack you and your wife for no reason with no warning because they sleep on the bed! I bet you let them on the sofa at home too? Someone needs to call Ceaser Milan quick, before the Woodhouse family gets the Ramsey Bolton treatment! :/

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 23:33:36 GMT

We have 2 dogs and no children. I refer to them by name or as the girls. That said phrases such as 'go and find your mum' may have been uttered from time to time.....

We are in a hotel in the Lake District as I type this and my wife and 'the girls' may be sleeping on the bed....

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 22:46:33 GMT

[quote user="svn"]

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

(and yes Bob, they are a LOT less hassle than children ;-) )

[/quote]

You need to meet my staffie My child is much less hassle!

[/quote]

Maybe it's the other way round and you need to meet my son

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

svn — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 22:09:26 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]

(and yes Bob, they are a LOT less hassle than children ;-) )

[/quote]

You need to meet my staffie My child is much less hassle!

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

svn — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 22:04:46 GMT

Why is unhealthy for people to say 'fur babies' or refer to themselves as their pets 'parents' There are a lot of similarities in raising a child and raising for example a puppy. Some people can't have kids, and they project that mothering instinct onto their pet instead. Ok, some take it too far and end up with obese aggressive lapdogs who 'only love their mummy' but I have met a lot of people, couples who refer to their pets as 'fur kids' and their pets have an amazing life, they listen to the vet or vn's advice, feed a quality diet, employ a dog walker, have their animals well socialised and trained, neutered, up to date on vaccs, fleaing/worming etc - how is this a bad thing compared to the people who say 'Oh its just an animal'?

I have a child, 2 dogs, a cat and a pony, I love them all immensely, but in different ways, my child takes priority every time! But I still regard my animals as family, and dare I say it, my 4 legged kids!

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Clive Ansell — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:31:07 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Wow, so far unexpectedly strong reactions AGAINST the concept![/quote]

Really? it's the response I would expect from veterinary professionals. If I had wanted to play Oochie coochie coo and smooch around cuddling puppies I wouldn't have become a veterinary surgeon.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:10:08 GMT

Wow, so far unexpectedly strong reactions AGAINST the concept! I hope this doesn't put people off with more perspectives or stories... Please contribute.

It is interesting that a few of you mentioned the anxiety when they realised the pet might be in danger or at risk of being lost, hurt or dead. For a psychiatrist the pet/human relationship is of course important when taking into account its role as helpful (support and assistance dogs) unhelpful (fear or anxiety), at risk (cruelty to animals, animal abuse, Munchausen by proxy) and bereavement.

Anyway, I hope to keep this thread going by adding more angles of looking at it in the coming days.

Mariette

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 10:42:43 GMT

It should be our job to educate our clients out of treating pets as child substitutes, trophies or status symbols as well and recognise them for what they are: different species with their own unique needs. A huge amount of the problems we see, mostly behavioural and nutritional, are caused by idiotic owners not recognising this and over-anthropomorphising. Grrrr.

RE: The concept of "Furry Children"

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 10:39:01 GMT

What Clare says sums it up for me. They are much loved family members, I am devastated if they get ill, I am really worried about them if anything happens. But they are pets and not my children. There is a huge difference between pets and children. I do call them the German term for girls if I want their attention, but no other human family terms will ever be used. Some pet owners here will call them Babies and some women might call themselves their mummy. But it's not very common. I do think that it's very common in the US though? (and yes Bob, they are a LOT less hassle than children ;-) )