Chilcott enquiry

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 17:39:26 GMT

TDSPD

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

J G Wray — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 16:01:55 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Silvia Persia remained peaceful until the Ayatollah's took over by force.[/quote]

Hmmm what was SAVAK and what is SAVAMA?

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:03:17 GMT

Silvia Persia remained peaceful until the Ayatollah's took over by force.

Jonathan. I'm more than willing to drive a Rolls-Royce. I don't have one. Just just once (for probably the only time in his entire life) Blair's apparently contradictory remarks might both have been true

Having written that, I don't think he'd recognise truth if it jumped up and hit him on the nose

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

J G Wray — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 23:41:01 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

Blair today:

'There was no rush to go to Iraq', some minutes later he said: 'Delaying wasn't an option'
'Sadam Hussein didn't have WMD', some minutes later he said: 'He was the first willing to use them'
The decision not to bomb Syria in 2013 was 'a fundamental mistake'

He has learnt nothing.

[/quote]

Is this an example of how flawed reflective learning is?

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 20:14:41 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

The Shah wasn't deposed until the 1970s Churchill was dead by then.

Wynne

[/quote]Sorry, I didn't make myself understood properly. Mossadeq was deposed by Churchill and Eik, to put the non-elected Shah instead.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 17:36:05 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am more angry that our troops were sent into an environment where they had inadequate equipment to protect them.[/quote]

Typical of all governments. Cut the defence budget, cut it, cut it, then send the Forces to do a job with crappy equipment and not enough of it, cheap dubious ammunition that's such rubbish that automatic weapons only fire one shot at a time...... and the Forces don't grumble or mutiny, they get on and do the best job they can with what they've got.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Bob Russell — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:40:13 GMT

He had procured or manufactured sarin gas and had used it on his own people. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt on the point of WMD's.

He had attempted to buy bits for a big gun that just might have been able to fire at Israel. This might have been a big bluff on his part but again benefit of the doubt.

Bush would have gone to war anyway do Blair looks weak and pathetic.

I am more angry that our troops were sent into an environment where they had inadequate equipment to protect them.

People went in to govern the liberated/occupied area without any infrastructure or mechanism to care for the civilians or troops.

Nasty, little smiley troll but not sure he is worthy of the gallows!

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:01:22 GMT

Blair has so little conception of truth I suppose it's hardly surprising that he's a 1 man debating panel.

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 15:59:38 GMT

I'm all for female emancipation, but I suppose what I meant is that it was a mistake for the Shah himself. He lost his throne because he tried to bring his country into the 20th century.

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 15:59:17 GMT

Blair today:

'There was no rush to go to Iraq', some minutes later he said: 'Delaying wasn't an option'
'Sadam Hussein didn't have WMD', some minutes later he said: 'He was the first willing to use them'
The decision not to bomb Syria in 2013 was 'a fundamental mistake'

He has learnt nothing.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 15:55:20 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Persia was stable under the Shah. His mistake was to encourage female education, and secular schools which taught something other than the Koran.

[/quote]

If encouraging female education was a mistake because it makes a country 'unstable', then you shouldn't allow females to hold a vote, becoming PM or even owning a practice. Allowing females to do stuff always causes 'unstability' because it changes the Status Quo, but is must NEVER be referred as a mistake.

[quote]

The Ayatollahs resented loosing their power, so overthrew him, and that was the start of fundamentalist Islam as a political force.

[/quote]

The start of fundamentalist Islam is no more than the extremist interpretation of a very old religious book, many of other faiths have done the same through History.

The West influence has not created this, but it has fuelled it.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 15:46:41 GMT

The Shah wasn't deposed until the 1970s Churchill was dead by then.

Martin We go as far back as the last surviving war criminal. It wasn't flawed intelligence - it was deliberate falsehood.

Francisco and Utlendigur, total agreement.

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 14:09:19 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Persia was stable under the Shah. His mistake was to encourage female education, and secular schools which taught something other than the Koran. The Ayatollahs resented loosing their power, so overthrew him, and that was the start of fundamentalist Islam as a political force.

Wynne

[/quote]

Persia was stable under Mohammad Mossadeq. The Shah was not elected their people, but was deposed by Churchill and Eisenhower to protect BP's interest (coup d'Etat). The rest, is history.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Utlendigur — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 13:51:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Unless you consider that Blair and Bush went into Iraq with the sole intention of personal gain it is all a witch hunt. [/quote]

Blair inc. has done pretty well out of it though...with a nice sideline in advising dictators

Maybe, just maybe, it will prevent the country being taken into such situations again on the back of one person's ego, un-minuted private meetings and spin.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] Flawed intelligence [/quote]

Not the adjective I'd use - cherry-picked or manipulated would be more apt.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 13:17:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Let sleeping dogs lie, millions will be spent on sham trials and nothing worthwhile will come from it.

[/quote]

let's not. Something good might come out of it. Maybe next some politicians will become wary before lying to achieve their goals. Even if they embarked on them in good faith. Involuntary manslaughter doesn't involve intent to kill, but it is manslaughter nonetheless.

'Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week'

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 12:38:17 GMT

Unless you consider that Blair and Bush went into Iraq with the sole intention of personal gain it is all a witch hunt. Flawed intelligence and misplaced altruism don't count and hindsight is a wonderful thing. This opens a Pandora's Box. Where do you stop - Afghanistan, Libya....? How far do want to go back in history to make politicians liable for their actions? No British PM committed more war crimes than Churchill. It doesn't justify anything but sadly shit happens and always will. Let sleeping dogs lie, millions will be spent on sham trials and nothing worthwhile will come from it.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 11:21:33 GMT

Strange that Robin Cook, as well as Dr Kelly died suddenly soon after!

Co-incidence?

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Richard Carter — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 09:22:32 GMT

Can we send Lord Hutton as well for obviously bringing his profession and the UK justice system into disrepute and if Geoffrey Archer can be sent to jail for perjury, perhaps we can line up Alistair Campbell, Blair, the then leader of the opposition who DID know better but decided to accept the lie as did most of the war mongering House. Notable exceptions were Charles Kennedy, Robin Cook and a few others like the Generals and a few 100000 marching outside who got the 'we know better' sneer from their peers. Sadly none of these people seem to be with us anymore.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 07:59:30 GMT

Clive Obviously - but that would be one trial, which if carried out fairly there would be very little doubt as to the verdict. If you noticed, the complaint in my opening post was that Blair is immune from prosecution.

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:24:12 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

along with Mr Bush?

[/quote]

... and Jose María Aznar. He was there too.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Clive Ansell — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 19:32:26 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Blair made the decision to send them there -

he's the war criminal who deserves hanging.[/quote]

Should he not tried in an international court of law first, along with Mr Bush?

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Bob Russell — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:09:16 GMT

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:03:09 GMT

I'd go back earlier. Iraq is an artificial country - created out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire. With hindsight, it might have been wiser to create 3 countries, 1 for the Kurds in the north, 1 for the majority of Iraqis in the middle, and 1 for the marsh Arabs at the delta.

Wynne

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:13:53 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Am I the only one who is totally disgusted that our soldiers, after being sent to an illegal war are now liable to be prosecuted for actions undertaken in the heat of battle, and whilst in fear of their lives - whilst evil Blair is immune from prosecution?

Wynne

[/quote]Your opinion may carry more value if you didn't continually over-emotively refer to Tony Blair as evil. Would he still be evil if the whole of Iraq had thanked him for ridding them of Saddam Hussein and it had become a stable, economically viable, democracy? The word hero may then have been more appropriate. There was admittedly a serious political miscalculation but history is littered with those. The only thing that bothers me is that the real motive was the control of Iraq's oil wealth but then recent Middle Eastern history is littered with colonial wars and coups in the name of the back gold as well. Indeed the whole mess the region is in now is the result of those policies in the middle of the last century.

RE: Chilcott enquiry

Bob Russell — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 12:41:13 GMT

Might be worth waiting until the enquiry is published tomorrow before making too many comments!