#We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 10:00:07 GMT

It was terribly terribly tragic. The statistics were actually millions of individuals. For many years my church has had an old man ( now well into his 90s) who served in the Navy during World War 2 taking part in the Remembrance service. He takes over from the Vicar when it comes to the part "They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the rising of the sun, and in the evening, we will remember them"

It is incredibly moving to hear these words from a man who served on Atlantic convoys, and saw ships being sunk, and who is now old.

Wynne

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Bob Russell — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 09:29:14 GMT

What a shame that a very poignant and effective tribute to the memory of individuals has to be immediately jumped on by the Brexit and why did the war start brigade.

I just thought it was a thought provoking thing for people to do. It brings it home that these were individuals and not names on a wall or numbers!

I thought it was wonderful and deeply moving!

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

vetbl.locum — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 09:18:56 GMT

It was the Austro Hungary who invaded Sebia and had being looking for an excuse to invade. They had been planning the attack and unfortunately the Serbian assassination possibly remove the one man who cold have stop the AH plans

The Serbs were not evil but wanted independence

Germany went to aid of AH following their initial defeats by Serbs Then Russia helped Serbs French pledged to help Russia Germans invaded France via Belgium to take out France then destroy Russia

Then slaughter occurred on an industrial scale due to old tactics and new weaponry

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 09:05:21 GMT

A hundred years ago the ruling families of Europe ( and, remember, they really did rule not merely reign in most European countries ) were even more in-bred than pedigree dogs. This didn't prevent cousin making war on cousin.

Also, if every country had been truly independent - with no mutual defence treaties, then it would have been a short rapid war between Austro-Hungary (the victim) and Serbia (the evil aggressor)

You could argue that multi-culturalism was the initial cause of the problem - that and immigration. Austro-Hungary contained 12 or 13 different ethnic groups ( going on the number of official languages) There was often tension between these groups - tension which has continued into the recent past, and was the cause of the ethnic cleansing in so many Balkan states. Austro-Hungary was a wealthy empire. Serbia was a poor country. Serbians crossed the border to better themselves, and were then resented by those already there. The descendants of the original Serb migrants thought they would be better off if part of Serbia.

You could call Austro-Hungary a prototype for the EU - massive and multi-ethnic.

As far as Archduke Franz Ferdinand himself is concerned, I have mixed feelings. I'm appalled at his trigger-happy (even by the standards of the time) attitude towards wild-life. I admire him for insisting on marrying the woman he loved, even though she was disapproved of by the Emperor because she was non-royal.

Wynne

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 08:59:17 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Could we not have a quiet thread just remembering the sacrifice of those who gave their lives – the phrase is "we will remember them" – without some dissatisfied Remainer turning it into the twenty-third "Brexit" thread on this forum?[/quote]No, because this is just the sort of thing that should concentrate the mind and press home the reason why we need a united Europe. Making every effort to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the past is the best way to make sure their sacrifice was not in vain.

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]The evil terrorist who caused all the trouble [/quote]One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. I would tend to blame the evil leaders of an empire that drove him to it.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 17:06:04 GMT

Each of those lives, lost, or maimed for life, or suffering appalling conditions in the trenches (both human and animal) mattered.

The evil terrorist who caused all the trouble was spared the death penalty because he was under 21. Hundreds of thousands of others, who were no older were sent to their deaths.

Wynne

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 14:39:02 GMT

Could we not have a quiet thread just remembering the sacrifice of those who gave their lives – the phrase is "we will remember them" – without some dissatisfied Remainer turning it into the twenty-third "Brexit" thread on this forum?

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Malcolm Ness — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 11:13:52 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Brexit is the first straw in destabilising Europe[/quote]

The first!!!!

Surely you are not trying to suggest that Europe pre Brexit was stable. What about Greece and the ongoing Euro crisis? What about the rise of the far right in France and Holland? What about the increasing dissatisfaction with the European project in France and Germany, the key founding countries. What about the basket-case economies of Southern Europe? What about the re-run of the Austrian election that might well see a self -professed and proud fascist in charge.

Much as I would have preferred a remain vote, I don't think that the Genie is any more or less likely to be "out of the bottle" because of Brexit. One analysis sees the Great War as a clash of empires; the Second war as a failed attempt to build a new German empire and regards the European super-state as dangerous empire-building.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 10:18:44 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]I disagree too. I see the killing of Francis Ferdinand and his wife Sophia as the last straw of a growing unstable political Europe,[/quote]Lest we forget!

Sadly it seems some of us have. Brexit is the first straw in destabilising Europe. I truly hope we have not let the genie out of the bottle.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Bob Russell — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 09:35:20 GMT

This was a simple and unexpected way of bringing the reality of war to people. Showing the troops were not numbers but people.

No politics, no judgement but I think a moving and dignified way to get a message through to generations that thankfully have not seen such carnage close up.

Much more 'real' than the official services held at Tiepval to many people.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Silvia Maldonado — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 01:28:18 GMT

I disagree too. I see the killing of Francis Ferdinand and his wife Sophia as the last straw of a growing unstable political Europe, if not the excuse to burst its resentment and distrust to each other country/empire.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 18:36:56 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Performance art at its absolute best![/quote]

Yeah..... not sure about this. Not sure about turning remembrance of those who gave their lives into a piece of "performance art" . On the other hand the organisers may be well intentioned.

I disagree with Wynne about the causes, the necessity and the consequences of the Great War, but this is not the time to discuss these things.

RE: #We are here - 100th Anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 18:26:27 GMT

I'm in 2 minds. It draws this terrible terrible anniversary to the attention of people who might not otherwise have noticed, but. it's a little too "show-biz" for me, when it commemorates such a dreadful tragedy.

The First World War was truly tragic...............both in itself, and in its consequences. The worst thing of all is that terrible suffering, and loss of life to animals as well as people occurred because of a tiny group of evil terrorists.

So unnecessary.

Wynne