Pet death survey

RE: Pet death survey

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 14:00:17 GMT

Catriona and Martin, My sympathy to both of you.

Wynne

RE: Pet death survey

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:23:04 GMT

[quote user="Catriona MacIntyre"]Sorry, but I am one of those people..... It also coincided with a deepening of an already severe depression that I was ignoring for a long time. [/quote]There is nothing to be sorry about. Its not wrong to feel like this and it is important to talk about it.

I've just put my old cat to sleep and I don't feel grief just a little sad and I know I will miss him. I feel more guilt than grief, that there was more I could have done for him even though I know I couldn't and this day has been coming for years, he had severe arthritis and was going senile but he was still great company and love his tummy tickled. I feel that I have betrayed his trust but know that I would be betraying him more if I let him linger on with no quality of life, keeping him alive with fluids and force feeding. He's at rest now and will feel no more pain. Life goes on.

But then again I guess this is my way of grieving.

RE: Pet death survey

Catriona MacIntyre — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:46:02 GMT

Sorry, but I am one of those people.

I lost Brahan, the first dog of my own 7 months ago yesterday, and to my shock, and slight shame, yes, it did and does hurt much more than the loss of my grandparents, or my best friend a few years ago.

I have found it incredibly difficult and a lot of what Clare says rings true with me - it's a different grief and maybe triggers different thoughts and emotions. It also coincided with a deepening of an already severe depression that I was ignoring for a long time. But then.... as my mother pointed out.... if I had lived with either of my grandmothers day in, day out for over 12 years, one of us would have strangled the other. That was never an issue with my dog, who's good favour did not depend on external factors in the way that my grandmothers did!

It is very different to losing a family member, and perhaps there is more fear that your grief will not be understandable to family and friends in the way that grief for a human might be.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but I do believe for some people, the grief and how to work through it is very complex.

RE: Pet death survey

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:38:01 GMT

100% agreement Martin

Wynne

RE: Pet death survey

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:10:51 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]This is a client who stated she couldn't cope with the loss her cat, and she couldn't go on, etc etc etc . Yet when it was alive would not even provide the most basic of care; refused simple and fairly inexpensive blood tests and dental work, and watched it deteriorate and lose almost 50% of its body mass over 18 months until it was in extremis. But, of course, she would "do anything for her"[/quote]

Time for my 'What clients say and what they really mean' article again I think, definitely a number 2, 3, 4 & 5, probably 9 as well:

A BAKER’S DOZEN THINGS CLIENTS COMMONLY SAY AND WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN

Not necessarily in any order

1) “It doesn’t matter how much it costs, do everything that’s necessary and send me the bill”: (This one is simple). I have no intention of paying especially if the outcome is not to my expectation.

2) “I can’t understand why he’s so poorly he’s never needed to go to a vet in his life”. (About the cachectic, flea ridden animal with severe periodontal disease and chronic renal failure they’ve just presented): I’ve never taken any interest in my pet’s welfare since I got it.

3) “OK, do the tests but call me before you do anything else, I don’t want him to suffer”. (Often when told the truth about the condition of the pet in 2): I’m prepared to do enough to resolve my conscience for neglecting my animal but even though a simple procedure and the correct diet will give him quality of life for a few more months there is a limit to how much I’m prepared to pay to discharge my debt to my pet.

4) “I only feed him the best food”: I feed him the cheapest food I can find in the supermarket or tripe/chicken/table scraps etc.

5) “I can’t understand why he’s got fleas and worms, I’ve tried everything”: I’ve wasted my money buying rubbish from the market and never thought to come to the vet for correct advice.

6) “I’m really upset you’ve told me he’s overweight, I can’t understand it; he’s such a fussy eater”: I’m so obese myself that anything that isn’t double it’s recommended weight looks thin to me and when my pet refuses to eat any more of the correct diet you recommended, instead of realising that he’s just not hungry, I tempt him with a load of titbits.

7) “My partner always deals with that, I’ll have to check he/she hasn’t done it first”: I’m not paying for the procedure/investigation you’ve suggested or products you sell which actually work, I think you’re trying to rip me off but I don’t want to admit it, so I’m using this as an excuse.

8) “I was intending coming to you anyway. I’m not happy with my vet and I’ve heard you do house calls”. (This one is usually at 11pm Sunday): I’ve just been told that I’ve got to travel 20 miles to my vet’s out of hours provider and I can’t be bothered, especially as I live half a mile from your clinic. I don’t come to you normally because the vet up the road is cheaper.

9) “I’m so pleased you’re still there, can I rush him down to you straight away, he’s been a bit off colour for a day or two but now he’s suddenly got much worse”. (At 8 pm Friday night, after a busy surgery, as you’re locking up): My pet hasn’t eaten or drunk and has had diarrhoea and vomiting for a week but I’ve been at work and like to relax in the evening. Now it’s convenient for me and the children are getting on my nerves telling me I’ve got to do something. (This often also associated with scenarios 1, 2 & 3 + possibly 4).

10) “All you’re bothered about is the money, if you cared about animals you’d come out and not charge me, why isn’t here an NHS for pets? Nobody ever has to pay on that Animal Hospital”. I’m a totally irresponsible pet owner, and I’m using your dedication and conscience as ammunition. I’m dependant on state hand-outs because I have no intention of working. I’ve got fifteen un-neutered animals that are fed a rubbish diet, have never been vaccinated, de-fleaed or de-wormed, are continually reproducing and live in squalor - a bit like myself really, innit.

11) “My cat has been kicked/ attacked by a fox/pecked by a bird/bitten by a squirrel/beamed up and experimented on by aliens”: My un-neutered tom cat has got another abscess from fighting.

12) “I can’t believe it cost so much, I’m obviously paying for your ski holiday/new car”.You don’t really expect me to believe that you have a business to run, wages and overheads to pay and earn enough to reinvest back into the practice whilst enjoying a modest standard of living that’s still not comparable with other professionals.

13) “The kind breeder agreed to meet me in a lay-bye half way”.

I’ve just been ripped off by an unscrupulous animal dealer who’s charged me a fortune for a runty, wormy, flea ridden mut with parasitic diarrhoea (parvovirus if I’m really unlucky) and told me to feed it tripe and not to take it to a vet because he’ll give me the wrong advice. Funny, I can’t get hold of her on the mobile number she gave me and I don’t know where she lives.

RE: Pet death survey

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 14:47:36 GMT

So much can depend on the circumstances of the death. My father had a miserable last 18 months of his life. My mother had been admitted to a care home, since her Alzheimers was too severe to cope with at home. An active man was frustrated by severe arthritis. A proud man was humiliated by prostatic problems. He wasn't afraid of death, as he had a strong Christian faith, and was buried next to his parents in the family plot of a chapel his ancestors had been instrumental in building. Although grieving, there was also a sense of a life well led.

In my mother's case the grief didn't occur when she died, but in the preceding years, as her mental facilities gradually deteriorated.

In the case of animals, there can also be a feeling of guilt. The legality of euthanasia ( and I mean true euthanasia not contract killing) places on good owners the onus of deciding on the right time. This isn't always easy, and, I know I've hung on too long on occasions, and later bitterly reproached myself. The illegality of human euthanasia takes this complicating factor away.

Wynne

RE: Pet death survey

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 14:27:20 GMT

I think it's a different sort of grief, very painful but not as fundamentally traumatic and heals more quickly. The grief on losing a pet often seems to trigger deeper suppressed emotions that are connected to the loss of a human relative which may also reflect in people's reactions so I have often had clients say they are more upset at that moment than when a human relation died. Grieving for a pet is uncomplicated by other factors such as long years of changing family relationships, distance, demands of caring, frustration etc. Your pet has given unconditional love on a daily basis, you rarely fall out with them and they don't usually disappoint you or break your heart. I grieve for my father in a completely different way than for my much loved old dog. My dog was with me every day and I have happy memories of her but I still grieve for , and wish I had had more time to spend with, my Dad. I'm just glad they both had a good innings which helps .

RE: Pet death survey

Clive Ansell — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:20:44 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="Clive Ansell"]I recently had a client who compared the loss of her neglected, untreated, emaciated, polydipsic, tachycardic cat, to the loss of the McCann's of their daughter Madeleine. [/quote]That is obscene. If I could give you 10 stars I would Clive but have 5 for now.[/quote]

Thanks.

This is a client who stated she couldn't cope with the loss her cat, and she couldn't go on, etc etc etc . Yet when it was alive would not even provide the most basic of care; refused simple and fairly inexpensive blood tests and dental work, and watched it deteriorate and lose almost 50% of its body mass over 18 months until it was in extremis. But, of course, she would "do anything for her"

Nauseating.

RE: Pet death survey

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:04:44 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I recently had a client who compared the loss of her neglected, untreated, emaciated, polydipsic, tachycardic cat, to the loss of the McCann's of their daughter Madeleine. [/quote]That is obscene. If I could give you 10 stars I would Clive but have 5 for now.

RE: Pet death survey

Clive Ansell — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:55:52 GMT

I struggle to believe that almost two thirds (63%) of people find losing a pet as upsetting as losing a family member or close friend.

I lost my father in 2001, and a friend died in a climbing accident in 2012. The upset and grief that caused is far worse than losing a cat or a dog - to me anyway.

Almost a daily theme at the moment; clients claiming how much they love their pet, how he "is part of the family" and they will do and spend "all it takes", yet they moan like hell and begrudge spending less than £30 to see a vet and just over £200 to carry overdue essential dental work.

It is also true that some people have a pathological attachment to animals and over humanise them, seeing them as replacement children or people.

I recently had a client who compared the loss of her neglected, untreated, emaciated, polydipsic, tachycardic cat, to the loss of the McCann's of their daughter Madeleine.

RE: Pet death survey

Pip R — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:23:48 GMT

Or choose to have animals rather than children - which takes us back to the original post ...

RE: Pet death survey

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:17:05 GMT

[quote user="Pip R"]But surely it's logical that some of those "350,000 children ... at risk of abuse/neglect" might feel more affinity with animals than the people who've abused or neglected them? That may be one reason why they become a surrogate family - not necessarily due to any psychological defects [/quote]I have no doubt that you are correct and the 350,000 is probably an underestimate. Many of today's adults who have profound psychological issues were probably also from dysfunctional homes. The trouble is like begets like. The only silver lining is that the abused may become carers rather abusers.

RE: Pet death survey

Pip R — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:34:24 GMT

But surely it's logical that some of those "350,000 children ... at risk of abuse/neglect" might feel more affinity with animals than the people who've abused or neglected them? That may be one reason why they become a surrogate family - not necessarily due to any psychological defects

Hope today goes as well as can be expected with your cat - that's a hell of an age &, I'm sure, the end of a very good life.

RE: Pet death survey

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:48:06 GMT

I suspect as a group we are very unrepresentative as we are used to death and are very much more pragmatic about it. There are posts on here from time to time about unboundless grief at losing a pet but I feel they are the exception.

I lost both my parents in a very short time 15 years ago and I didn't shed a tear, I don't know I was even sad indeed there was relief when my father died as he had given up the will to live after mother died. They were old and it was their time. I look back fondly on the love and support they gave me and smile to myself but I'm never sad. My sister on the other hand has still not got over it and can't spend Christmas at home because mum and dad always use to spend Christmas with her family.

I'm likely to have to PTS my 18 year old cat today because his kidneys have finally given up. I won't shed a tear even though he's been a devoted companion for all that time - more dog than cat in the relationship. I'll give him a kiss and a cuddle as he goes then its over and I'll have my memories. I won't be happy but I will know I've done all I can to give him a good life, he can't live forever and I move on.

As for arsehole clients. Given that in a recent survey it is estimated that 350,000 children are at risk from neglect/abuse what hope is the for animals? I have no doubt that much of the 'grief' some pet owners is a show, crocodile tears to hide their guilt for not being as good a pet owner as they should have been. Equally I have no doubt that there are many who feel genuine grief but when they start putting it above their own family I suspect the pets have been surrogate partners/children and there are psychological issues which run much deeper and need to be addressed.

RE: Pet death survey

Pip R — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:49:24 GMT

I don't think it's fair to generalise. As Linda says, some humans are arseholes.

My father died ten years ago: I shed no tears & haven't missed him at all. But I still get wobbly about our whippet, who died two years ago, & miss him like mad. Having been through a life-changing illness this year, if I could have brought one of them back to support & comfort me through it, it would've been an easy choice: our dog every time.

& if that makes me a bit daft, I can live with that!

RE: Pet death survey

Bob Russell — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:30:38 GMT

The problem is it is generally a different type of grief.

Very upsetting and traumatic for days/weeks then life moves on. Occasionally a 'pathological' element to the loss but these are probably people with pre-existing issues. Many people take months to really function after the loss of a close family member.

I still grieve gently for my parents, years after they died. I would love to be able to have a chat with them about things! I look back on the lives of my pets with a smile or two!

Comparing the loss of a pet and a close family member is a bit daft.

RE: Pet death survey

Linda Filshie — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:23:24 GMT

Some human beings are arseholes - I know several people whose pets show them far more loyalty and love than their human family. One size does not fit all in terms of grief - who are you to judge?