Fraudulent vet

RE: Fraudulent vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 08:46:20 GMT

Royal College's mistake last time wasn't striking him off...............it was letting him back on again.

Wynne

RE: Fraudulent vet

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:34:35 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]He needs to be struck off, full stop.

[/quote]

He was, once before - will another striking off make any difference to him, you think?

RE: Fraudulent vet

Bob Russell — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:31:27 GMT

A prison sentence for misuse/abuse of prescription only medicines to be administered to animals is a pretty 100% lifetime ban.

It is more likely at his age that he will choose to voluntarily remove his name from the register for life. Not sure this is good enough this time!

He needs to be struck off, full stop.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 08:35:24 GMT

They're guaranteed to do so now, but, until sentencing this was sub judice, therefore any action would be most improper.

I'm glad they've been jailed, and I hope this time the veterinary surgeon will not only be struck off, but remain struck off.

Wynne

RE: Fraudulent vet

svn — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:29:04 GMT

Have the RCVS got involved in the most recent findings?

RE: Fraudulent vet

Stephen Spencer — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:51:39 GMT

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/weald/news/horse-drug-scam-trio-jailed-98792/

RE: Fraudulent vet

Gerry Henry — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:40:13 GMT

But the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) was produced after the Second World War by the Council of Europe, which was an idea proposed by Winston Churchill as early as 1943, and again in 1946. It was founded in 1949 with the Treaty of London and the ECHR was drafted by a British MP and former Nuremburg Trials prosecutor Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe. So if anything it's a British idea that was taken up by the rest of Europe.

The European convention on human rights was designed to stop Germans pushing Jews into gas chambers, not to preserve the right to 'family life' to immigrant criminals (ie to stop deportation). The original idea was good, like everything it has been perverted and traduced by the EU.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Bob Russell — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 14:54:52 GMT

If Ebay can sell you a 'warranty' on electrical goods that have not been seen or tested by a professional then so could a seller. It is just a matter of working out the odds!

The 'Square deal' policies are not fantastic and do not mean your goods will be fixed. They just mean you will get your money back if a fault develops.

A combination of a veterinary certificate and such a warranty would spread the risk. Bad dealers would be blacklisted pretty quickly by the insurance company as would a vet landing them with excessive claims.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:23:49 GMT

Except an insurence backed warranty implies to me a "Certificate of soundness" i e perfection. This is banned by RCVS. Instead the purpose of the examination is "Is this horse fit for the purpose for which it is intended?" That's why the veterinary surgeon is paid by the buyer.

Children's ponies have been mentioned. A 20 year old child's 1st pony may well have mild arthritis, maybe even requiring permanent low level bute. It's comfortable on this, so no welfare problems, and may well be otherwise perfect for the job, so if noted on the form there is no reason to say it's unfit for the purpose for which t is intended. Adodgy temperment is another matter.

The opposite is true for a Grand Prix dressage horse, or Grade A showjumper. Even the slightest lameness will mean the horse is unsuitable for the purpose for which it is intended. Temperment? So what? A professional competitive rider should know his/her limitations.

Wynne

Wren Do you agree?

RE: Fraudulent vet

Bob Russell — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:11:19 GMT

The problem with vettings is that the clinician is trying to find things that are wrong. A history is skewed towards the seller and the buyer is considering this to be a form of warranty. Claiming the costs and 'emotional' compensation seems to be a bit of a game for some!

Perhaps the sellers should be taking more of the risk and offer an insurance backed warranty.

Quite a lot of pressure on a vet so not for the faint hearted!

RE: Fraudulent vet

Wren — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 08:45:55 GMT

[quote user="svn"]

The vets in mixed practice that I know are always scared and refuse to vet horses, I chose to purchase my mare without a vetting, my choice, consequences are mine. I hear so many anecdotal stories of dealers with 'chosen vets' where vettings go wrong! It's scary and I totally understand why a vet would refuse. This would appear to be a vet who was getting a backhander, shame on him!

[/quote]

I think that if you do relatively little equine work as part of your day to day work it's probably unwise to undertake PPEs ('vettings'). However no vet with sufficient equine experience should be afraid of doing vettings or refuse to go. If you do your best, most thorough job on the day, and document every finding you are never going to end up in trouble. I do an average of 1 or 2 a week (some weeks up to 4 or 5 depending on time of year), and vet everything from £800 kids ponies to £50000 horses for America. I vet quite a lot at dealers yard, some high end and reputable, others less so. I try to encourage everyone to have a five stage vetting and bloods, and am increasingly doing full sets of radiographs as well. I think a certain degree of cynicism and horse sense is advisable, but if you have the relevant experience it is never a job that you should be scared of. If there is a problem with the horse post purchase and you have done a thorough job on the day and taken relevant notes you will always be defended.

I'm sure that, over the years, I have missed various things - neurectomy scars can be virtually impossible to pick up, continental warmbloods may have had chips removed and present as little as a year later with no visible evidence either clinically or on radiographs. A crafty dealer on a wind-swept hilltop once managed to conceal the fact from me that the hunter he was selling made a significant noise. As with other branches of veterinary medicine you are not expected to be perfect or flawless, just do a thorough and professional job.

RE: Fraudulent vet

svn — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:01:17 GMT

RE: Fraudulent vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:58:36 GMT

It was a knee jerk reaction to the evil National SOCIALISTS, and like most knee jerk legislation, badly thought out. It's resulted in the law-abiding suffering, because the law is no longer protecting them from criminals.

Wynne

RE: Fraudulent vet

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:53:13 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

Honestly I've lost track of the never ending parade of interfering eurobusybodies who continually interfere in/allow over zealous British officials to interfere in, our daily lives.

[/quote]

RE: Fraudulent vet

Gerry Henry — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:18:01 GMT

Honestly I've lost track of the never ending parade of interfering eurobusybodies who continually interfere in/allow over zealous British officials to interfere in, our daily lives.

Had to laugh tonight, the Canadian finance minister doing Osborne a favour and urging us to stay in Europe, pulling the old 'mother country' routine, LOL, his name is Morneau, no prizes for guessing what country's interests he's backing (hint, it ain't ours).

RE: Fraudulent vet

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:45:10 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

Selling dangerous ponies to children, I'd give them five years each without remission ... but the EU something or other probably wouldn't allow us to do that.

Vote to LEAVE on the 23rd

[/quote]

If you are referring to those rules laid down in the European Human Rights Convention, then leaving the EU is irrelevant - they are two very different things.

(Would recommend watching this Patrick Stewart Pythonesque spoof about the what the EHRC has ever done for us - it is hilarious!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA

RE: Fraudulent vet

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:11:29 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

Selling dangerous ponies to children, I'd give them five years each without remission ... but the EU something or other probably wouldn't allow us to do that.

Vote to LEAVE on the 23rd

[/quote]I think that is scraping the barrel of emotional blackmail more than Boris and his buddies to find a reason to leave.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Clive Ansell — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:08:14 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]66yr old vet with relatively little to lose? [/quote]

Except his dignity, self-respect, professionalism, and hopefully soon his freedom and stripping of his assets to pay compensation to the victims.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Gerry Henry — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:01:35 GMT

Selling dangerous ponies to children, I'd give them five years each without remission ... but the EU something or other probably wouldn't allow us to do that.

Vote to LEAVE on the 23rd

RE: Fraudulent vet

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:53:58 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]Can't believe how much some people might flaunt their professional status, or fail to learn from their previous transgressions...![/quote]That's because (presumably) you're an honest decent person. It is always difficult to understand how people who act differently to the way we do but sadly they do. I doubt many of his ilk spend much time on this forum or indeed participate in any form or CPD or career enhancement other than that which lines their pockets.

Sadly I have a couple of them near to me, IMO completely unprofessional and have never been seen at any CPD meetings local or otherwise. Yet they can't see the error of their ways they think I'm the one whose missing out on opportunities.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Wren — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 08:41:52 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

Wonder where he got the Modecate sedative from - I'd never heard of it and google search didn't suggest a license for veterinary use.

[/quote]

It is/was relatively well used in equine practice (particularly in the US) but has pretty much fallen out of favour. My feelings would be that it is rarely used now for legitimate purposes. It is not licensed for use, but neither are a large proportion of the drugs we use in horse work. Our wholesaler still lists it so not a problem to obtain.

RE: Fraudulent vet

James Laidlaw — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 23:33:19 GMT

I had some dealings with separate issues regarding this individual and now understand why the RCVS may not have been so worried about the problems I was having... Can't believe how much some people might flaunt their professional status, or fail to learn from their previous transgressions...!

RE: Fraudulent vet

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 22:44:40 GMT

Yeah - he was suspended for a year in 2003 for falsifying certificates, and then one of his employee vets was suspended for 8 months in 2010 for the very same thing.

He certainly deserves to permanently lose his RCVS membership now! He's a disgrace.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 22:16:47 GMT

Wonder where he got the Modecate sedative from - I'd never heard of it and google search didn't suggest a license for veterinary use.

RE: Fraudulent vet

Emily Rainbow — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:49:31 GMT

It's not the first thing he's been pulled up on either!