Docked puppy, no certification

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Stephen Ashman — Sun, 10 May 2009 21:37:13 GMT

Thanks for everyone's input, I'm going to have a think about it (although I can't really see reporting it coming to anything as there are too few details).

[quote user="Richard Weston"]However the client has broken the law (I gently suggest that technically) by buying/receiving an illegally docked pup[/quote]

I'm not sure that's true - is it? It is the action of docking which is illegal, not the resulting puppy?

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Richard Weston — Fri, 08 May 2009 17:26:00 GMT

Been my hobby horse for 30 years. I'm proud to say I have NEVER docked a pup in my life. The difficulty is always the person you are talking to isnot the offender and as your fee paying client you don't want to offend and drive your client away.

However the client has broken the law (I gently suggest that technically) by buying/receiving an illegally docked pup. Many of the Council of Docked breed vets are now dead or dying so these puppies must mostly be illegally docked. I recently had one in that was docked for working. The owner did not buy it for working. The vet signing the certificate is declaring he/she KNOWS the lifestyle of this puppy in the future. This vet obviously didn't so is guilty of false certification. THAT is something the RCVS can be pushed into doing something about.

Heowever, how much energy do you have to fight apathy. At 58, I am flagging as all my efforts in the last 30 years have been in vain. The two vets I reported "got off".

I still have my principals and apply them when I think I might get somewhere. I am so glad to see this thread is showing that many others are feeling the same frustration. Trading Standards is the place to go that leads to the dog warden and RSPCA for prosecution (see my article in Vet Times regarding the smuggled dogs. I lost out on 2 blood tests at £94 each by "doing the right thing")

Keep policing

Richard

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Rudolph — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:56:04 GMT

I had almost this exact scenario yesterday, only it was a Rottie pup and in Scotland, so definitely illegal. Explained to the new owner that it was against the law and that it should be reported. I didn't know where to report to either so phoned the SSPCA who said they would send an inspector. I didn't have to provide the owner's details (as she hadn't docked the pup) but did tell them the breeder's details. I haven't heard anything back about what happened. I figure I've done my bit now!

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Tim Newton — Fri, 08 May 2009 10:02:41 GMT

If you explain that it is illegal, and your wish is to stop the breeder, and no blame attaches to the owner, you may well get them onside. I equate to amputating a pinky in a baby, and that makes many owners blanch and come round.

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

ms1083 — Fri, 08 May 2009 08:05:33 GMT

It’s a difficult one. The dog in question has already been docked so its new owners/its self will not benefit and very likely to upset the new client. I do always mention it is illegal but in a rather past sense as its not their fault.

However, its illegal and the breeder will probably continue unless people enforce it. It would have been so much easier for the RCVS just to ban it fully.

I have asked the RCVS what to do when such a puppy is seen - I remember a very wishy washy response with ought giving me any guidance at all. They clearly have not thought about it.

I tend to take the approach of educating our clients by saying how nice your dog looks with a tail - its amazing how many clients reply with something like "looks stupid with a tail, it’s a shame" I see that as an invitation to discuss behavioural aspects of having a tail etc. Hopefully over time the general attitude with tails will change.

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:22:15 GMT

The Welsh legislation is slightly different so the pup's position may be different in your area. If it's a Jack Russell it might have been docked legally but without the certificate being supplied. Even a legally docked dog, the owner must get it microchipped before the age of 3 months or they have committed an offence.

Having said that, it's pretty obvious it's been docked illegally. So wotcha gonna do aboud it mate?

Supposing you want to do anything about it, check with RCVS about confidentiality but at the moment they seem to be giving a blanket OK for every case irrespective of circumstances.

Tell the new owner what you are going to do, unless you feel they don't deserve that courtesy.

Then report the known facts to your local Trading Standards department. After that, it's their responsibility. You need do no more.

But hang on a moment. You are not obliged to do anything about it. You are not a policeman or a paid informer. It sounds pretty unlikely that the docker will even be traced. But you will upset your new client (of course that might not bother you).

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Utlendigur — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:54:40 GMT

I had a docked rottie pup brought in last year - not on list of exempt breeds so definitely illegally docked. Profcon said it was OK to breach client confidentiality as an offence had been committed + animal welfare (future litters I assume) was a factor. Trouble is like you I couldn't get any info on the breeder as the pup was handed over on a road somewhere in Manchester, and like you I couldn't work out who to report it to - supposedly "local authority" but whose (ours or breeder's), and does that mean dog warden, trading standards, police? What about RSPCA. Nothing in the act seems to deal with the enforcement side of things

Re: Docked puppy, no certification

Stephen Ashman — Thu, 07 May 2009 21:51:50 GMT

Just remembered, no chip either.

Steve