Someone give this lass a break ...

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

grumpyoldman — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 18:29:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]]I'm a bit funny then. I don't mind my nurses doing voluntary work at the local petting zoo etc or moonlighting working as a waitress Saturday nights so long as it doesn't affect their work but I do draw a line at them working for other vets. In theory seeing how other's work is a good idea but often good ideas are not good in practice. There's too much danger of Chinese whispers and comparing/misunderstanding different codes of practice. Going for unpaid experience say for a secondment from an auxlliary TP with full knowledge of both parties is different. [/quote]

I probably take the other view , not allowing them to work in other practices, can create an idea that the grass is greener. Letting them find out its not is a good thing. People will gossip, chat, compare and contrast at college, CPD, online , weddings etc.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 14:29:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I do draw a line at them working for other vets. In theory seeing how other's work is a good idea but often good ideas are not good in practice.

[/quote]

We are encouraged to work some OOH as long as it doesn't affect our normal hours - Since we no longer do OOH of our own, it helps us keep up with these type of cases and it does bring new ideas to the practice. In many cases we have implemented these ideas.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Rob Loxley — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 13:29:31 GMT

We've had nurses earning a bit extra working occasional shifts with our OOH provider, which we've not had an issue with

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:23:33 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Some people are "funny" about employees moonlighting elsewhere ,doing bits for vetsnow, Or Saturday mornings for other practices when there is a holiday or a wedding etc .[/quote]I'm a bit funny then. I don't mind my nurses doing voluntary work at the local petting zoo etc or moonlighting working as a waitress Saturday nights so long as it doesn't affect their work but I do draw a line at them working for other vets. In theory seeing how other's work is a good idea but often good ideas are not good in practice. There's too much danger of Chinese whispers and comparing/misunderstanding different codes of practice. Going for unpaid experience say for a secondment from an auxlliary TP with full knowledge of both parties is different.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

grumpyoldman — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 18:28:47 GMT

It all seems very odd , we generally train our own , and its a bit like the hotel california so vacancies are rare. You do hear some odd tales. Some people are "funny" about employees moonlighting elsewhere ,doing bits for vetsnow, Or Saturday mornings for other practices when there is a holiday or a wedding etc . I think its ok to let them get on with it , seeing different ways of doing things, and having to work without certain toys and facilities makes people realise that things are better than they thought. My only proviso is do not turn up here on a Monday morning looking like a corpse unable to function properly. Its also very interesting if they locum somewhere and get to re see one of their lost 2nd opinions.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 18:10:29 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]if everything is as you say then this sounds like a breach of contract
https://www.gov.uk/job-offers-your-rights [/quote]

Indeed it does. But a) it's a small profession and who wants a reputation for being litigious, and b) how many nurses can afford to retain the services of Mssrs Sue, Grabbit & Run?

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Rob Loxley — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 14:51:28 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]She was due to start in her new job Monday before last. [/quote]

if everything is as you say then this sounds like a breach of contract
https://www.gov.uk/job-offers-your-rights

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 14:07:46 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Well if they had to give up care work due to a chronic back injury, then veterinary nursing is hardly a good career move! The cynic in me would foresee a lot of days off sick![/quote]That would probably be the case and is almost exactly what I thought but it is not the point! It is about having the courtesy to acknowledge someone's effort. Fortunately I've never been in the position where I've had to go begging for jobs but I understand that even something as simple as an employer replying to your email is appreciated.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Would you accept the re-offer of a job from someone who had just fired you 24 hours before you were due to start, without giving you any opportunity to explain yourself? I'm not sure I could be that gracious.[/quote]I'm not sure I would but I've always been pretty self-confident, others may not be.

Equally I would respect someone who had the guts and grace to accept they were wrong. There is also a case of beggars can't be choosers.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Bob Russell — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:53:49 GMT

No but I would feel better for the offer. She really should consider this a near miss!

A good employer would have asked her about it before withdrawing the offer. A better one would approve of her actions. The more experience, the better the staff member!

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:38:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]she should be even more valuable to them and therefore re-instate the offer of employment.[/quote]

Would you accept the re-offer of a job from someone who had just fired you 24 hours before you were due to start, without giving you any opportunity to explain yourself? I'm not sure I could be that gracious.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:27:27 GMT

Well if they had to give up care work due to a chronic back injury, then veterinary nursing is hardly a good career move! The cynic in me would foresee a lot of days off sick!

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 12:45:00 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Of course, they could have been being 'economical with the actualite', but that was certainly not what I picked up from the telephone conversation.[/quote]What makes me think this more, is that if they are now in possession of the full facts, if the only reason is that they thought she was trying to shaft them, and they now know she isn't and was only trying to improve her knowledge/experience, she should be even more valuable to them and therefore re-instate the offer of employment.

The alternatives are: that they were just taking advantage of her as an unpaid dogsbody and this is a convenient way to dump her or; they are too pigheaded to swallow their pride and admit they made a mis-judgement. Either way she is probably better off not working with them in the longer term as maybe the next thing will be that they will withdraw the offer of VN training support.

The sad thing is that there are thousands of cases like this of (mainly) young girls who are taken advantage of and/or have their dreams shattered by uncaring, unscrupulous practices who view them as a commodity rather than a young person who needs nurturing. I, like you Arlo, would like to help them all but where do we stop?

I had an email yesterday from a girl who is working as a hospital care assistant but because of a chronic back injury can't do the job anymore and wants to try veterinary nursing so was asking me if we had any opportunities. I replied the same day telling her that sadly we don't but wishing her the best of luck in her new career. She replied to me thanking me for my prompt reply because most haven't even bothered to acknowledge her. Something as simple as a reply to an email can help these people's self esteem.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:53:42 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Sadly I can't help, but she is the sort of person I would like to employ.[/quote]

I did think of you when I posted this!

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]However, I can't help but think that she didn't do herself any favours by not telling her future employer[/quote]

From speaking to her, she feels the same. Benefit of hindsight and all that. And if you do something with the most innocent of intentions, you don't always think to cover your backside!

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Equally though I would wonder if things weren't as rosy as she thought and they were looking for an excuse not to take her on and she conveniently gave them one.[/quote]

That occurred to me (and her) too. All I can say is that the hiring practice was really emphatic with me. The person I spoke with said they knew they had to give her some training, and they were committed to doing that, and the only reason they withdrew the offer was because of what they had been told (which, according to the other practice was completely untrue). Of course, they could have been being 'economical with the actualite', but that was certainly not what I picked up from the telephone conversation.

RE: Someone give this lass a break ...

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:34:10 GMT

Sadly I can't help, but she is the sort of person I would like to employ.

However, I can't help but think that she didn't do herself any favours by not telling her future employer what she was doing, I would wonder why she didn't and would understand why the practice misconstrued her intentions. Equally though I would wonder if things weren't as rosy as she thought and they were looking for an excuse not to take her on and she conveniently gave them one.