Selling up - any regrets?

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

J G Wray — Fri, 27 May 2016 12:38:54 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

I am a practice owner but am finding the day to day hassle and staff management aspects of ownership too stressful. I also find I get less satisfaction from doing the job- but that might be because I am already stressed.

I am considering selling the practice and either locumming, or possibly having a complete change and going into property management. I have a few years left before I will be old enough to retire.

[/quote]

There is another alternative, which is to change the way you do practice. If you could maintain independence, have a (real) management structure which shouldered the burdens you describe and still have clinical autonomy, do you think you might rediscover some motivation?

It is possible, but you have to go and get it. It is not a passive exercise. More details if wanted.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 May 2016 12:25:13 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Skiing - appeals about as much as retirement.[/quote]I would keep it this way if I was you, it is an expensive obsession!

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 27 May 2016 12:16:54 GMT

I fully expect to end up with arthritic knees/hips from riding................but it hasn't happened yet!

Skiing - appeals about as much as retirement.

Cycling - even less.

Wynne

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:24:41 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Martin - I used to ski as well. But a succession of knee problems ( 2 ops on one knee, 3 on the other!) Means no more skiing for me. The injuries were nothing to do with skiing,[/quote]My knees also suffer: torn ACL, meniscal damage in one knee, sprained collaterals in both, probably more than I want to know about in truth. I wear braces on both knees but they still swell up dramatically and are painful after a hard day's skiing. I've managed a total of 3.5 weeks this year and it takes me a month at least to get back to normal after each trip. But does that stop me? No. The thrill, risk, sense of achievement, being in a dramatic and beautiful place few others can/will go, in steep back country terrain, outweighs all of that for now at least. I would sacrifice running for it but if it got to the point I couldn't cycle then I might reconsider which would mean stopping erm.....snowboarding - much better on the knees but not good for the upper body! I could go on all day but this is already too much of a tangent so will stop here.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:03:14 GMT

Martin - I used to ski as well. But a succession of knee problems ( 2 ops on one knee, 3 on the other!) Means no more skiing for me. The injuries were nothing to do with skiing, but I can walk, run, swim, cycle everything pretty much fine now. I do miss it, but I wouldn't want to damage my knees again for a week's jolly in the alps. It's just not worth the risk.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 27 May 2016 10:42:21 GMT

Nice of you to be concerned about my health Martin. I'm feeling very well thank you.

I judge issues, not personalities, so, although I disagreed strongly with you on speeding, I agree equally strongly that retirement really isn't for me for (hopefully) a long long time yet.

The bottom line is I'm still enjoying veterinary work far far too much.

Wynne

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 May 2016 10:41:16 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]On my days off I am usually busier and more active than when I am at work! [/quote]So am I, I have plenty of things to do, gardening, maintenance at home and at the surgery, cycling.....often there are not enough hours in the day but if I was just lazing about I would feel like a Jeremy Kyle candidate!

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I got home last night after an 11 hour day and then went for a 10k run,[/quote]Ditto, but mine was just for fun and to keep fit.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 27 May 2016 09:53:02 GMT

It's horses for courses. If you really enjoy your work and the hours you work then fair enough. All I know is I am much happier now than I ever was in full time practice. When I locum I see a lot of stressed out vets, absenteeism etc. I do feel sorry for today's generation of vets who have to start their working lives with a huge debt.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 27 May 2016 09:42:18 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]As I've eluded to in other threads, we all look at things differently and if you don't have a certain mindset you'll never understand those have have it. I view people who don't have my workaholic attitude as lazy![/quote]

On my days off I am usually busier and more active than when I am at work!

I got home last night after an 11 hour day and then went for a 10k run, to make sure I'm ready for my triathlon this weekend. Ian is currently training for his ironman tri in July. I am babysitting a 2 year old for a friend today ( and loving it!) Lazy? Hardly.

Martin- I think you're misunderstanding me. When I said I go to work for the income, I meant it. I have children to raise, school fees to pay and debts to cover. However, you're right, if I wanted a bigger income, I have other options-but I usually enjoy my work and am happy making 'enough' money. Ian and I never started our own business for the profits- it was so that we could job share. But would I work 48 weeks a year if I won the lottery? No f****** chance!

The thing is, I enjoy spending time with family and friends, and my hobbies and free time, more than I enjoy my time working. To me it is a no brainer. Given the choice, don't you spend your time doing what you enjoy most?

Obviously you love your work- and I suspect your self esteem and happiness are very much generated by it. As you say, lots of people gain so much of their 'raison d'etre' from their work that retiring means they lose a large part of themselves. That is fine - we are all different.

But not being a 'workaholic' doesn't mean you want to keep Jeremy Kyle company all day!

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

bob lehner — Fri, 27 May 2016 09:30:00 GMT

Well I did 'retire' at 55 - sold my partnership of 25 years - having got to the stage of being over-stressed, worn out and suffering health issues (severe arthritis of the wrists - not good for equine work!).

It was a huge decision and although I had been looking forward to it I have to admit that when it actually happened I was filled with sadness (I walked out of the door for the last time with tears pouring down my face ....aaagh) - and a degree of foreboding as to what I would do with the rest of my life.

In the event I did some locuming (interesting!) and started work as a PSS inspector for the RCVS. I now work one day a week in a lovely local practice and continue to be busy part-time with PSS - plus having time to enjoy at home and indulge in other hobbies. The thought of going back to a full-time job has no appeal whatsoever.

Financially of course I'm far worse off - and the precipitous decline in interest rates since I sold up means that my income has been steadily falling - and pension income also proved rather less than I had been hoping for after years of stuffing money into various funds.

Overall however I'm sure it was the right thing to do - as others have said few people die wishing that they had spent more time at work.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 27 May 2016 08:56:54 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Well reading this thread makes me so glad I never went in to practice ownership. I always find it bizarre that people become such workaholics that they can't seem to cope with all this leisure time.[/quote]As I've eluded to in other threads, we all look at things differently and if you don't have a certain mindset you'll never understand those have have it. I view people who don't have my workaholic attitude as lazy!

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I enjoy all my free time. It's enabled me to get really fit, if the weather is good I'm out on the bike, if not then I go running or the gym.[/quote]Don't get me wrong I enjoy mine as well and it seems we have similar interests (OK substitute winter sports for gym, albeit I have my own mini-gym at home I don't enjoy one second of it I see it as a necessity for optimum fitness) but I feel I have to earn it or I don't enjoy it as much.

And using the winter sports as an example in two ways here. As many will know from reading my reports in Vet Tmes and from comments on this forum, I participate in skiing congresses. This enables me to have guilt free holidays. Sadly you may think, I feel guilty taking time off from work otherwise. And they are also a reason not to retire: how else would I get 2 tax deductible ski trips a year?

It is a work/life balance and we all have different sets of scales. My fanaticism for efficient time management has allowed me to utilise every last second of my days and I am certain that my children will tell you they had an idyllic childhood with dad at the centre of it despite his work commitment, yet I had time to run the practice sole-charge and cycle and run competitively.

Its your life, its only comes round once, make the best use of it as you see it not as someone else thinks you should/they did. I know I will not regret one moment of my life when I'm on my death bed. Could I have done things differently - yes. Could I done things better - probably. Would I have enjoyed life more - no.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 27 May 2016 08:21:02 GMT

Well reading this thread makes me so glad I never went in to practice ownership. I always find it bizarre that people become such workaholics that they can't seem to cope with all this leisure time. I enjoy all my free time. It's enabled me to get really fit, if the weather is good I'm out on the bike, if not then I go running or the gym. I'm now on a month's cycle tour of the Pyrenees and northern Spain. I agree with Gillian. I want to enjoy my time while I'm still young enough to enjoy it ( late 40s).

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

David Mills — Thu, 26 May 2016 20:19:43 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] 100% agreement with Martin.[/quote]Are you feeling well Wynne?

[/quote]

I suspect she just wants the opportunity to pay more tax, secretly.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

George Cooper — Thu, 26 May 2016 19:24:28 GMT

"Regret" per se is something I do not do, preferring to choose that when a decision is made, it is made at that time with all available thoughts and facts at that time.

Having acquired a practice in order to put into practice my many and varied thoughts about management, marketing and motivation, an eventful virtual cascade of misfortune ensued that necessitated closure and a deep examination of the umbilicus. The result (to spare details of that "journey") was to work in a 'job-share' with a Boss who had decided that his children needed him at home and available as much as was possible. (His father had been a GP whom he had rarely seen, and the lesson of work/life balance was not lost on him.)

Consequently I work in that job-share, and have done now for ten years. Turn up for work, follow my own decisions, enjoy the client relations (now the assholes have been sacked), feel grateful that despite being well into retirement age I can still restore QOL for patients AND clients, and then go home - to enjoy my (growing) guitar collection, my pose-mobile, my garden without ANY worries about staff, VAT, drug stocks, and so on and on and on.

In other words - if life seems to be getting shittier, bale out and do summat different. I earn sufficient from a half job to be able to satisfy my own "wants" in this life.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 May 2016 19:10:16 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] 100% agreement with Martin.[/quote]Are you feeling well Wynne?

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 26 May 2016 18:59:59 GMT

I always thought I would work till 60, but got to 55 last year, and think more and more about retiring every day! I still enjoy being a vet, but not so much running a business if I'm honest. I think maybe losing a couple of friends in the past few years has had an effect on the "seize the day" mentality.

I was chatting to a vet compatriot the other day who gave up work a year or so ago, and she said she had absolutely no regrets, but found other non vet people find it odd anyone would want to give up being a vet. That is a measure of public opinion I guess.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 May 2016 17:29:25 GMT

100% agreement with Martin.

Gillian I went on to write..............still, if it suits you. I know it wouldn't suit me. I still get a "buzz" from making animals better, and can't imagine life without that buzz.............call me a veterinary junkie!

Wynne

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:39:04 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Exactly. What's the point in waiting to stop work till I'm too old and knackered to enjoy it???

It doesn't make any sense to me when people say 'I'll work until I'm unable to do so.'

I guess we all see our short time on this Earth very differently. Few people look back in their dying hour and think 'wish I'd stayed at work a bit longer...'

[/quote]

So true

I spoke to a fellow tour leader recently (cycling) she said that at 50-60 you feel that you can go on for ever. 60-70 brings a slowing down and my experience of taking many many retirees on cycling holidays is that 70 is the start of a decline, though I have taken a 78 year old to South Africa, but he found the heat really hard.

55 is a fine age to aim at but you do need an exit strategy and having a career (in my case the cycling tours) to move into should be contemplated, otherwise you'll end up like a farmer (my father) who is simply lost without his cows/sheep.

My uncle at 64, spent many years waiting for his big retirement trip. 2 years post retirement he died of a stroke.

Neil

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:21:19 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Few people look back in their dying hour and think 'wish I'd stayed at work a bit longer...'[/quote]

I have spoken to a few people who have recently retired and regretted it . Not Vets though. The main problem is feelings of a loss of place structure and identity, not sleeping well, anxiety changes to routine. I also have employees of 20 years plus with families ,mortgages etc . Realistically they know and I know that if I chose to sell, it would have to be to the "Dark side". In some ways you can become a hostage to your own principles.

The only people or profession I have known slip into retirement or semi retirement easily are teachers , maybe finishing at 3:30-4:00 pm for only 36 weeks a year with no weekends gives you a different perspective on work and leisure time?. Maybe they are just accustomed to lots of leisure time ?.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:11:01 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] We are all in this for the income - no? We may be fortunate enough to do a job we love(d),[/quote]No. I became a vet because I wanted to work with animals. That I made a good income from it was secondary. I would have started in a different direction or quit a long time ago or even gone down the 'corporate' route of profit at all cost if the income was the driving force.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]You have said many times, Martin, that you currently don't intend retiring and your work is certainly a part of who you are. [/quote]It is so much a part of who I am that I cannot contemplate life without it. Maybe that is as much of a mental issue as wanting to get out because of the stress and it may change one day. Every morning I wake up and I'm 0.0001% closer to thinking about retirement but I've not quite hit the 50% mark yet.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I, however, have set my retirement age at 55 and really intend to do so! [/quote]So did I but when I got there I realised that another 40 years or so of not working was a scary thought.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] My Dad didn't live long enough to get chance to retire.[/quote]Mine did and lived to grand age of 95. He was shadow of his former self though. Like I would, he missed the daily challenge, reverence and respect.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:00:48 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Gillian 55! You're still a spring chicken then...........[/quote]

Exactly. What's the point in waiting to stop work till I'm too old and knackered to enjoy it???

It doesn't make any sense to me when people say 'I'll work until I'm unable to do so.'

I guess we all see our short time on this Earth very differently. Few people look back in their dying hour and think 'wish I'd stayed at work a bit longer...'

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 May 2016 15:10:10 GMT

Gillian 55! You're still a spring chicken then..............still whatever suits you.

I'm like Martin. I've got a practice that suits me............and don't intend giving up for a long time.

Retirement really really doesn't appeal.

I also need to continue supporting all my beloved 4-legged dependants.

Wynne

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

David Mills — Thu, 26 May 2016 14:55:38 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I feel I have a huge responsibility to my staff who have given me unstinting service and loyalty and I would not forgive myself if I didn't take care of them for selfish reasons.[/quote]

www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 26 May 2016 14:48:42 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I would not forgive myself if I didn't take care of them for selfish reasons. [/quote]

I suppose it depends what you consider to be 'selfish reasons'? We are all in this for the income - no? We may be fortunate enough to do a job we love(d), but if you no longer needed an income, would you continue to do it? I admit that I wouldn't - there are loads of other things I could happily fill my time with. I doubt that even my most loyal clients would get another pet after theirs is PTS simply to ensure my continued healthy profit margins!

You have said many times, Martin, that you currently don't intend retiring and your work is certainly a part of who you are. I, however, have set my retirement age at 55 and really intend to do so! It costs me a fortune in personal pension payments (which I started paying with my first wage) but you only get one life. I intend to live it. My Dad didn't live long enough to get chance to retire.

RE: Selling up - any regrets?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:37:10 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]You have no repsonsibility to staff, clients or patients,[/quote]While we should look after No1, and no-one should feel guilty about that - after all who cares for the carer?, I disagree with that statement.

I feel I have a huge responsibility to my staff who have given me unstinting service and loyalty and I would not forgive myself if I didn't take care of them for selfish reasons. Clients and patients to a much lesser extent but my bonded clients always look in horror when I talk about retirement albeit there are a good many I would happily see the back of!

Whilst I'm sure they would all understand if I retired for medical/mental health reasons the very fact they show such faith in me would be a reason to do my best overcome those issues and give me the strength and will to carry on.