Referral practices and how they think

RE: Referral practices and how they think

grumpyoldman — Sat, 14 May 2016 23:56:02 GMT

Too be fair it probably is a bit of a thankless task , we would only ever refer the weird and wonderful obscure things when its got a pain in the arse on the other end of the lead. Or something that needs advanced imaging in a hurry, we want the imaging really but they will only take the case if they get any surgery as well. Most of the time its no or under insurance obstacles ,combined with inability to cope with travelling distances repeatedly,time off work , and generally not that committed. Sometimes 2 urgent spinal cases will appear in one day, the uninsured JRT gets in house imaging and surgery for £1500, because they are nice people ,the pain in the bum with the dachshund and a pet plan goes far and away for £5000. Cest la vie !!!.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Braden Collins — Sat, 14 May 2016 23:38:03 GMT

I hope I'd never let a patient die. I meant that we have some clients who us to become their regular vet after they have been referred to us, but we have a 12 month exclusion on them coming back unless referred. Short term, that has cost us a bit but longer term we'd rather maintain the trust of the referring vets.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 14 May 2016 16:10:29 GMT

Braden When you say "lose" I hope you don't mean the patient died?

Wynne

RE: Referral practices and how they think

patrick murphy — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:32:33 GMT

I referred a non insured dog with an indolent ulcer and they did a complete set of bloods. was I stupid to have not done them myself? is there any conditions in the world that do not need complete haematology and biochemistry?

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Braden Collins — Sat, 14 May 2016 13:47:38 GMT

We accept a lot of referral cases at our clinic and our policy is very clear that the referring vet is our primary "client". Because we're a "normal" clinic as well as accepting referrals, we need the referring vets to have a lot of confidence in us and faith that we will support them.

We have had a few cases where the referring vet has missed some pretty obvious problems (had a case referred to us for abdominal ultrasound on Friday of a dog vomiting blood - it had a large bleeding lesion in its mouth), but we make sure the pet owner walks out still respecting the referring vet.

We would rather lose a big case than the trust of a referring clinic.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Anthony Todd — Sat, 14 May 2016 03:04:04 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] Needlessly repeating bloods and radiography ,spending a fortune confirming what you have already found before getting no where fast. [/quote]

Almost always referral centres repeat bloods, which almost always tell them nothing new.

Nice earner and hard to dispute......

RE: Referral practices and how they think

J G Wray — Fri, 13 May 2016 19:29:29 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

I wonder whether that's because he's a non-vet, or whether it's just because he's not very good at marketing!

(I mean, it's a pretty basic rule of marketing to first find out what your 'customer' wants, and this guy sounds like he hasn't even done the most basic customer research).

[/quote]

I've come to the conclusion he's not v switched on

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Indeed - both as important as each other, surely?[/quote]

Yes and No

This is what I think, from our correspondence:

"...Dear Mr Xxxxx,

[We] are your clients.

The pet owners we send to see your your staff are our clients, temporarily entrusted to your service. The patients are our patients, temporarily entrusted to your service.

We have choice where to refer...."

This was in response to "..meeting the needs of our patients and clients and supporting referring practices..."

They have only a B2B relationship to generate business so I found this all rather wooly. It's almost a paternalistic tone where they're there to sort out the stuff we can't. Well, they are, sort of, but they do so by being invited to do so by us, not by having the work as of right.

Once the clinical work is under way then we are probably equally important, but outside that when we're not sending referrals, when we engage with them to line up a referral and afterwards we should be their priority. After all, if feeder practices don't feed they don't feed their children.

SOme referral practices get this, now that there is more choice than ever before for us feeders.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 13 May 2016 18:34:44 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]it's a pretty basic rule of marketing to first find out what your 'customer' wants[/quote]

As a referral practice your customers are both the pet/owner and the referring vet[/quote]

Indeed - both as important as each other, surely?

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Rob Loxley — Fri, 13 May 2016 18:31:24 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]it's a pretty basic rule of marketing to first find out what your 'customer' wants[/quote]

As a referral practice your customers are both the pet/owner and the referring vet

RE: Referral practices and how they think

grumpyoldman — Fri, 13 May 2016 16:48:35 GMT

I think that they(referral centres) have traditionally tried, and largely failed to build relationships in the past through sponsored CPD gatherings etc. Some do seem to have a very high and mighty attitude, talking down to you as though you were some new grad from vetsrus who does not know their arse from their elbow. Needlessly repeating bloods and radiography ,spending a fortune confirming what you have already found before getting no where fast.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 13 May 2016 15:22:02 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The non-vet CEO, bafflingly, doesn't get this. He is using language which takes possession of the client and the pet and providing "support" for the referring vets.[/quote]

I wonder whether that's because he's a non-vet, or whether it's just because he's not very good at marketing!

(I mean, it's a pretty basic rule of marketing to first find out what your 'customer' wants, and this guy sounds like he hasn't even done the most basic customer research).

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 13 May 2016 14:28:00 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The non-vet CEO, bafflingly, doesn't get this.[/quote]

Are you really surprised?

Yes, I've encountered variability in how referral practices handle cases. The ones I dislike don't get any more referrals from me.

And from the other side, with my referral practice hat on, I do hope I've always been the good kind.

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:25:57 GMT

There's a definite difference in attitude between referral clinicians.

Some acknowledge that primary care veterinary surgeons have as much total knowledge as they do......it's just more widely spread.

Others are, quite frankly, unjustifiably arrogant.

Wynne

RE: Referral practices and how they think

Bob Russell — Fri, 13 May 2016 10:35:51 GMT

Every time I see images of the latest multi-million pound referral centre all I can think of is 'that's going to drain the insurance pot'!

It is the specialists we should be paying for plus the tools that are essential for them to do their job. Shiney premises that put BUPA to shame seem an extravagance too far.

We are near SCVS, Anderson Moores and Optivet, they seem to have fairly sensible premises without the staff gym!

Referral practices will price themselves out of the market even if owned by corporates! Sadly RSA's preferred network is the result!

The money is just not there!!