recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

grumpyoldman — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:36:15 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]When you're stuck in close confinement with your friends the niggly things that you ignore normally come to the surface with cabin fever. If I spend a week in a tent with my best friend in all the world I could kill him at the end of it.[/quote]

I can't stand camping , but point taken .

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 10 May 2016 16:24:19 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]..if your already familiar with people its probably easier to put your point across without bottling things up then blowing a fuse.[/quote]It may be but it is also difficult to say something to a friend for fear that it may lead to a breakdown in the relationship. When you're stuck in close confinement with your friends the niggly things that you ignore normally come to the surface with cabin fever. If I spend a week in a tent with my best friend in all the world I could kill him at the end of it.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 10 May 2016 15:10:28 GMT

Nothing wrong with that - as long as they also socialise outside the running club - and as long as a future staff member who's into (say) classical music, not sport isn't victimised for refusing to join because the club clashes with orchestra practice.

A group of disparate co-workers choosing to team together is good for the team ethic. Recruiting from a small pool who are already cliquey is a recipe for civil war with all outsiders.

Wynne

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

grumpyoldman — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:50:54 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]As Wynne has replied this is dangerous. [/quote]

It can be , if your feeling threatened or vunerable. On the other hand ,if your already familiar with people its probably easier to put your point across without bottling things up then blowing a fuse. Life and work are full of compromises ,but if you set your stall out properly at the outset, and make it clear where the lines are and follow the rules. Its ok to listen and learn ,if you think they have point change something and give it a try ,if you do not agree its ok to say so .

I do think over familiarity with nurses makes it hard to maintain discipline, if they are the kind of individuals who are likely to make a challenge ,may be the trick is to be careful with initial selection?. I do not see anything wrong with them being friendly with each other or the other vets , They have recently entered a local half marathon, and formed an informal ladies running and training club, I do not see anything wrong with that.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:32:08 GMT

[quote user="Liz w"] I just think that if you stayed with someone, had a laugh down the pub etc, it must feel even more of a personal rejection than a normal interview. [/quote]From my point of view this would be the last stage when I was 99% sure it was the right person, it certainly wouldn't be routine.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] Its often better if they are already friends /aquaintances of the already incumbent vets. [/quote]As Wynne has replied this is dangerous. We constantly live with this dilemma as small employers. It is important to have a friendly working environment where everyone gets on but at the same time it is dangerous to be best mates with employees/workmates. As someone else suggested it is even more difficult than marriage - at least with that you voluntarily got together (usually!) and there are other bonds to keep you together.

I'm not sure I've ever achieved the right balance, just as I think i might have done something comes back to slap me in the face. I've never employed another ever vet except as a locum partly because I know I would find it very difficult. When I was an employee I was never best mates with other vets and if I've got very friendly with one of the nurses the others resent it and think she's teacher's pet. Even the nurses socialising together seems to lead to fractured relationships.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:11:39 GMT

If they are, you're running the risk of creating an "In clique" which will both threaten your authority, and make life impossible for an outsider, if, at some future date you need to employ someone else, and another gang member doesn't apply.

Wynne

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

grumpyoldman — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:07:08 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]But not as hard, as Mr Grumpy says, as having to sack them after a few months because they're not good enough/don't fit in.[/quote]

That is certainly an experience not to be repeated if at all possible. If in doubt your better just soldiering on as you are until the right person pops out of the woodwork . Its often better if they are already friends /aquaintances of the already incumbent vets.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Liz w — Mon, 09 May 2016 16:49:25 GMT

That was meant to be a reply to Michael. I just think that if you stayed with someone, had a laugh down the pub etc, it must feel even more of a personal rejection than a normal interview.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 09 May 2016 16:33:44 GMT

[quote user="Liz w"]

I can see the advantages for you in doing this, but it must have made it a lot harder on those you turned down.

[/quote]But not as hard, as Mr Grumpy says, as having to sack them after a few months because they're not good enough/don't fit in.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Liz w — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:00:13 GMT

I can see the advantages for you in doing this, but it must have made it a lot harder on those you turned down.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

grumpyoldman — Sun, 08 May 2016 19:18:28 GMT

Its ok to offer expenses , its also ok to see what they can do for a day . In a small close knit practice group you need to know for their sakes and yours that they are going to "fit in" and its going to be a success if at all possible. The last thing you want on your mind is uprooting someone and their family, getting the them to leave a stable if not brilliant job to walk into a disaster ,and then having to let them go because its all gone pear shaped . If your not sure or have reservations have them back again, never make do . Your going to be spending 10-12 hours+ a day with this person ,its worse than getting married, so make sure you like them and vice versa.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Sammy82 — Sun, 08 May 2016 17:02:26 GMT

I prefer to actually see the practice "in action" (and not when it is closed in the evening), talk to the other staff and just generally get a feeling of the team and how the work is organised. In my very first job I spent a week shadowing the boss without getting paid for it (but I got accommodation, some meals and use of the practice car!). I wasn't registered with the RCVS yet so he couldn't legally employ me for that week anyway. I did a tail amputation under supervision as well during that week. I did not mind as I saw it as a chance to see the place. I would not mind to spend half a day shadowing and doing a few consult/OPs even now as part of an interview, but would not do a full on day without pay.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 07 May 2016 21:48:25 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

Gone are the days where there are universal travel expenses paid interviews, whatever the industry.

[/quote]Thats a shame , we always did for travel within the UK , not that many interviews to fund once you have a short list and a justifiable practice expense too , seems very shortsighted and penny pinching not to cough up.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 07 May 2016 21:30:37 GMT

When we were recruiting we had a lot of new grads apply. We got them to spend 2 days with us and stay with me wife and I (she's also a director of the practice). It let them do practical things and see what their personalities were like. The experienced guys we had come and spend a full day with us.

We discussed paying for travel but didn't. We put the new grads up for the night, took them out for a nice meal, plied them with alcohol (make them relax a bit...). Also bought them dinner each day.

The applicants seemed to like the idea and we felt we got to know them much better. It was time consuming, expensive, slow and bloody tiring!

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 07 May 2016 17:17:22 GMT

Evelyn You and I can remember a better, more courteous world. This is just one example.

Wynne

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 07 May 2016 16:05:55 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

Gone are the days where there are universal travel expenses paid interviews, whatever the industry.

[/quote]

Then the world and this profession have got slightly s**ttier.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 07 May 2016 15:57:13 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]If the interviewee was coming a long distance, I'd also expect any decent practice to put them up for the night[/quote]

something that wouldn't be lost on a decent applicant....

Neil

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Sarah Keir — Sat, 07 May 2016 14:55:39 GMT

Gone are the days where there are universal travel expenses paid interviews, whatever the industry.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 07 May 2016 13:13:38 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]Some practices pay travel expenses which is a nice gesture but I don't think it should be expected.[/quote]

On the contrary. I wouldn't want to work for a practice so tight-fisted that they declined to pay travel expenses for an interview.

If the interviewee was coming a long distance, I'd also expect any decent practice to put them up for the night.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Sarah Keir — Sat, 07 May 2016 10:59:26 GMT

With past experience, I now would not accept a new job without spending at least a day working or shadowing within a practice. Depending where the practice was (how far to travel), travelling expenses would be welcome but I would not expect to get paid the day unless they treated me like a locum and expected a full day's work out of me - I would be more interested in getting a feel for the practice, talking to different levels of staff.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Fenella — Sat, 07 May 2016 09:39:07 GMT

I have been asked, after an initial normal interview, to come back for a morning for a "working interview". I did some consults and an op. I didn't get paid for the time, but I was given travel money.

I was more than happy for this, it wasn't just the employer gaining information on me, but I was able to see how the practice ran and see how nurses and receptionists got along and worked as well. Also able to see what some of the clientele was like. Definitely valuable information when deciding whether to take a job or not!

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Stephanie Wellings — Sat, 07 May 2016 09:27:33 GMT

I would welcome the chance to spend half a day/a day in a practice if I was considering taking a permanent job there - given how important the job is (especially the bits you can't find out except by spending time there) it's really not a big deal to do a day unpaid. Remember how much free work you did as a vet student....?

I would also be very sympathetic to the employer wanting to see a prospective employee in action - it shows they care about the practice and they have high standards, and that's the kind of boss I would want.

I wouldn't expect to be paid or get travel expenses - I haven't been paid for any of the interviews I have had, admittedly they were only 1-2 hours travel time.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 07 May 2016 09:24:22 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I suppose it is "the market" Martin. You want to try me out for day, I'll work, your clients pay you and you pay me. As a locum, I would not spend plenty of days being interviewed and tested without being paid. Different for that permanent job I really fancy! (But already have - in real life)

Mariette

[/quote]You're missing the point Mariette. You're not working, you're not doing something that someone else hasn't got time to do in fact you would probably take more time than you save. Consider it a practical rather than verbal interview.

Anyway it's already been established that the time I asked a candidate to do a test spay was a one off due to exceptional circumstances I rarely actually even meet the locums let alone interview them.

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 06 May 2016 23:04:56 GMT

Mariette

RE: recruiting, interviews and protocol whats expected by both parties

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 06 May 2016 22:53:52 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

Well from the locum point of view, I am sorry to say that if somebody wants me to work as a locum, fine to try me out for a day, but I would want to be paid. Why should I work for nothing?

I accept to work in practice I know nothing about. Sometimes it is not an entirely pleasant experience and then I know I won't easily locum for them again, but that comes with the job. Usually how it works is, you locum for a practice, they like you and ask you back. I would think most practices would have their "regular" locum.

Mariette

[/quote]In this situation you are not being paid to work, you are not being given a job, you are having a practical interview, why should you be expected to be paid for that? Travel expenses maybe, time no.