Pregnancy experiences

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Rob Loxley — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 00:16:56 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I appreciate that any on call I don't do someone else has to cover[/quote][quote user="An On MRCVS"]I wanted to reduce this before I was pregnant and nothing was done [/quote]

Likewise someone else would have to do it and maybe they don't want to take this on??

RE: Pregnancy experiences

An On MRCVS — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:28:35 GMT

Thank you all.

Last time I worked till 36 weeks but feel very different this time and will be starting my maternity earlier. I just have had a run on bad on calls, one with a fitting dog where I was up all night and a weekend where I was out every night so struggling to get much sleep. It's true this feels bad when you aren't pregnant too.

I appreciate that any on call I don't do someone else has to cover but I did say I wanted to reduce this before I was pregnant and nothing was done and now feel my employers and myself are just hanging on till I go on maternity leave.

The end is in sight for me but I just wondered about others experiences too.

I suspect I will not be going back to my current job as I don't think we will be able to find a mutual ground for hours etc. But I do really hope I will be able to find something, I do actually enjoy my job☺.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:19:05 GMT

I guess it depends on what your previous experiences have been. My employees have been reasonable - happy to work in whatever capacity they can, but with safeguards in place such as avoiding being in the kennels area post op (far more environmental contamination with gases there than in theatre), not doing home visits etc etc. They have often taken on more admin though. I've never been asked for what I would consider unreasonable changes or requests.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Ceri Gruffudd Jones — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:37:43 GMT

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

It is hard to carry on when feeling rough, especially when you know it will go on for many months. My daughter is now 20 months.

I was fortunate through my pregnancy to have a supportive team around me and a relativley uncomplicated pregnancy. I didn't actually change that many things. I worked until 36 weeks and came off the OOH rota for the final 2 weeks of work but until then I did my full share - approximately 1 weeknight per week plus 1:4 weekends (Sat am-Mon am) and was working full time. We always have either a vet or nurse backup available for the on call vet in case of GAs or major crises. Later in pregnancy we made sure I had a vet rather than a nurse backing me and my other colleagues very generously said if I had big dogs that needed lifting they would come and help even when not on call.

Clare has given some very sensible advice regarding taking on some of the other unsocial shifts in return for some nights. In later pregnancy I did more admin and 'sitting down' jobs and a bit less of the rough and tumble.

As PP have said, your employer must make 'reasonable adjustments' but you are more likely to get a good compromise if you approach the negotiations with offers of what you can do instead, rather than a simple 'I can't / wont...'

Good luck!

Ceri

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:30:26 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]in my practice we did whatever we could to reasonably do to make things better and other vets were very supportive about swapping to cover nights etc especially for a colleague who was being reasonable but it sounds to me as if maybe you are needing more than just a few shifts switched round. [/quote]

I know what you mean, and cooperation and flexibility goes both ways. But the OP specifically mentioned that working a full weekend later in pregnancy would be difficult, which sounds like a reasonable worry. If her colleagues shared the weekend nights that she would find difficult (the OP should be OK during the day) they would all have to do one or possibly two extra weekends each. I don't think that is a lot to ask? To simply say no is a bit unreasonable, in my opinion.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:28:50 GMT

While I sympathise with how you must be feeling I also have sympathy for an employer trying to change the rota to one that would make things workable and flexible with a full weekend on call as you describe. Any change to your rota must inevitably impact on the other vets in the rota. You must put your health first but if you reduce your hours and pay but that will of course impact on your maternity pay. As others have said sit down and discuss what can be done but be prepared to be flexible yourself. Think about when you can work some of the antisocial hours , maybe every Saturday or Sunday daytime so that you get some regular sleep. Another vet might be willing to accommodate this for a while.

in my practice we did whatever we could to reasonably do to make things better and other vets were very supportive about swapping to cover nights etc especially for a colleague who was being reasonable but it sounds to me as if maybe you are needing more than just a few shifts switched round.

It is hard looking after two small children and to be honest I was sometimes glad to go and do a full weekend on because it was often easier than being at home with the childcare.Every job had a beginning and an end unlike childcare. I found it gave me respite and kept my brain cells working and also allowed me to continue my career which I really enjoy.

it's hard being a vet and a parent for man or woman and although it would be great to have it all I don't think any of us escape feeling tired or guilty about missing some aspects of family life because of the nature of our work. It all works best if everyone is prepared to give and take , and to voluntarily put back in when someone else needs consideration.

I hope you find a solution , you and your children are the main priority but you've also worked hard to be a vet so I hope you stay in the profession in the future even if it isn't in the same work pattern you are in now.

Best of luck and have that discussion when you're not feeling tired and with some constructive suggestions of your own.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:24:11 GMT

It does become difficult, especially in mixed and large animal practice. On call is a part of the job and it's not optional. It's not uncommon to spend a lot of the day working on your own in our practice - whether that is in the surgery or on calls. You can't really stop in the middle of a cow caesarian, fertility visit or TB test and put your feet up for 15 minutes!

We have a vet who's just come back to work. We had a good talk about what was safe and what she could do. Stopped her using some drugs herself. Took extra care ensuring animals were properly restrained etc before treatment. Closed system anaesthetics only. Not in the room for radiographs. Otherwise she carried on as close to normal as possible until the earliest date she could go on maternity leave - by that point fatness was impairing work and a uterine prolapse would have been an issue. She's come back part time and it seems to be working well.

There is no way we could have accommodated not doing on call. It's generally not too onerous (other than at lambing time). Taking leave as early as she could seemed to work well for both parties. We've been as flexible as we can, but she has also been sensible and realised once work was becoming difficult to go off. I think it has been positive for both parties and the work still got done.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Nicola Cole — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:27:11 GMT

I'm not sure if they still do but the BVA (if you're a member) used to have a legal helpline-they may beable to help?

I guess in most practices things just rub along with a give and take attitude, and as each pregnancy is different there's no hard and fast rules (which probably doesn't help you!). I think it's after week 29 that if you can't 'do your job' eg if you had a pregnancy related problem, then you can be told to take maternity leave (I'm sure a nurse friend of mine who was signed off sick for months (!) had to take maternity leave at that stage, although I guess that could have changed). But again, definition of not being able to do your job i think is quite wishy-washy-some people may include not being able to do on call as not being able to do your job but you'd have to take advice on the legal standing of this if things have got to that point.

Personally I don't think there's any harm in booking yourself off a 10 minute slot in the morning to sit down. I think a lot of the things that you notice about the job whilst pregnant are things that aren't ideal even when not pregnant-it's just not as obvious to you! Not having any break from when you walk in at 8/9am until afternoon is not ideal whether pregnant or not. People often will lift heavier weights then they should be doing-but often it takes pregnancy or a chronically bad back before people will stand up for themselves and say they won't do it unless there's another person to help etc....

RE: Pregnancy experiences

grumpyoldman — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:52:04 GMT

The part-time thing is better than loosing valuable experienced staff ,however , the problem is often not the owner/.management but the other employees , If someone part-time wants to work Mondays wednesdays etc because most bank holidays are Mondays there is always a bun fight with the regular full-timers who resent the part-timers disproportionate holiday gains . There is also the problem of part-timers fitting into a full time OOH rota or trying to edge out of it ,thats another s****storm. You can see both sides of the coin, you want smart intelligent hard working women to contribute to the next generation and out reproduce when ever possible the CHAVs and socially housed single mums with their ADHD problem offspring. But your also running a business not a charity.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:33:09 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I quite accept that I may not return to this practice as the on call has been so stressful with one child, arriving home to put them to bed and having to be called away, leaving a crying child is a horrible thing. I do not want to be doing this anymore. [/quote]

Difficulty in managing a work-life balance with babies and toddlers is universal, and is certainly not just restricted to veterinary medicine. If taking an extended maternity leave is the best way to manage it, and it is financially viable, then go for it.

Never forget, though, that even though this 'phase' feels like it is lasting forever, it is actually a very small period of time career-wise. Your current priority is, quite rightly, your babies. One day, though, you will probably want your career back. If it is at all possible, try to keep working one or two days a week, or take on occasional locum cover for someone. It will make your life a lot less stressful than trying to regain your confidence after a few years away. And, assuming you're not out in the sticks, there are a LOT of practices around who would be thrilled to have a vet to cover occasional days/holidays.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Bob Russell — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:01:37 GMT

Bad staff choices IMO. Our lot seem to be stopping at one each.

Clearly did it once, didn't like it so didn't do it again!

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:59:42 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Its ok once or twice but if they are planning a football team it can get on your tits after a few years . [/quote]

Fortunately my staff have all stopped at 2! (Two nurses and one vet...so far... and they all still work for me, two part time, one full time. All have changed their hours many times to accommodate their growing families, both decreased and then increased them. They are all loyal, dependable and invaluable staff members- and the short-term inconveniences were absolutely worth it!)

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Bob Russell — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:59:09 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]A key member of staff becoming pregnant can be very inconvenient [/quote]

Do you mean during the pregnancy, or maternity leave?

[quote user="Bob Russell"]It can actually be devastating because locum cover is expensive and sometimes just not available.[/quote]

I assume you mean during the maternity leave? I guess it depends what you pay your staff, but I didn't find that to be the case. My full time vets are paid circa 45k, so locums aren't vastly more expensive than this, considering you don't pay them for holidays etc. And, as I said, you have plenty of time to book them. A member of staff suddenly becoming I'll or leaving with little notice, is worse!

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Flexibility, understanding and consideration should make pregnancy far more of a 'pleasant' experience for everyone but if that fails then legal protection kicks in (quite right too)![/quote]

Absolutely. I'd love to talk to the 'inconsiderate' (being polite) employers who have no sympathy for their pregnant employee, and the genuinely difficult and tiring aspects of being pregnant. I'd ask them if they would feel if it were their wife/daughter, and whether they would be a little more supportive of them....???

[/quote]

Absence is the key concern for me. It puts others under pressure. All the pregnancies here have probably been more fun for us than the affected individual!

Exciting for those on the periphery of events but decidedly worrying for those of us concerned with absences. Everyone has always rallied round and helped.

Locum costs are not as important as locum availability (in our case nursing staff rather than vets) but we have coped.

I don't live in the corporate world and everyone here works as a team, bordering on extended family.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

grumpyoldman — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:53:10 GMT

there are some things about maternity leave that do drive normal rational reasonable employers insane . One of them is the accrual of paid leave during maternity leave because if they are normal and honest ,no one likes paying someone for nothing . But mostly you just work around it and bend a bit when and where you can without putting everyone else nose out of joint too much ,sometimes that means taking their place in the rota as well as your own. Its ok once or twice but if they are planning a football team it can get on your tits after a few years .

RE: Pregnancy experiences

An On MRCVS — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:46:22 GMT

Thank you both,

My first pregnancy was truly terrible, very sick all the way through and I was bitterly disappointed in my treatment at that practice. I was not feeling very strong and able to stand up for myself at all and there were no exceptions made.

This time not as sick just feel it a little but very drained. Last year was very stressful for personal reasons and I am over the moon to be expecting again. I just wondered if I had managed to find exceptions to the norm in practices that do not seem to be very accommodating, despite me trying to minimise the disruption as much as possible.

I quite accept that I may not return to this practice as the on call has been so stressful with one child, arriving home to put them to bed and having to be called away, leaving a crying child is a horrible thing. I do not want to be doing this anymore. I am luckily not too stressed about this from a money point of view, more from a career point of view. But I will cross that bridge when it arrives.

Think it is also the normal pregnancy hormones causing havoc currently and just feeling a little blue.

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:18:33 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]A key member of staff becoming pregnant can be very inconvenient [/quote]

Do you mean during the pregnancy, or maternity leave?

[quote user="Bob Russell"]It can actually be devastating because locum cover is expensive and sometimes just not available.[/quote]

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Bob Russell — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:07:22 GMT

A key member of staff becoming pregnant can be very inconvenient but it is a normal thing and there is little excuse for an employer to make life difficult.

It can actually be devastating because locum cover is expensive and sometimes just not available.

If an employer won't make allowances then they are lousy employers. If they struggle then make allowances!

Flexibility, understanding and consideration should make pregnancy far more of a 'pleasant' experience for everyone but if that fails then legal protection kicks in (quite right too)!

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:58:51 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]when I asked to move my on call forwards so I wasn't doing it when very pregnant I was told that wasn't possible and if I couldn't do it then I should be going on maternity.[/quote]

Strictly speaking, this is true. However, you can only be 'forced' to start maternity leave due to inability to do the job fairly late in pregnancy (I forget the exact week). Before this, you can be sent home/suspended ON FULL PAY if your employer is unable to find you duties that you ARE able to do. In my opinion, your employer was able to accommodate your perfectly reasonable request. Your employer is walking on very thin ice!

[quote user="An On MRCVS"], which means the whole weekend Friday night till Monday morning[/quote]

In my opinion, this is not appropriate hours for a pregnant lady. Again, by forcing you to work those hours, despite you requesting a change, I suspect your employer would lose a legal dispute.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I appreciate pregnancy is a bit of an inconvenience for bosses [/quote]

Bollocks. There are worse inconveniences. If an employer can't work around 6 months of disruption WHILE YOU GROW A HUMAN BEING then, to be honest, they are an awful employer and a pretty unpleasant person.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]When did other people stop doing on call etc?[/quote]

When I was a pregnant employee, to be honest, I didn't. I was fortunate that i had a 'normal' pregnancy and was surrounded by supportive staff. I did the normal full time rota until 36 weeks, which was very tough and included full weekends from Friday to Monday. It was awful. I ended up being induced at 38 weeks due to excessive oedema and high blood pressure. I don't doubt that my work lifestyle contributed to this. Hence why I would NEVER expect an employee to do the same as I did.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I am also not going to be willing to do any on call with 2 and feel I will not be able to return to current job.[/quote]

If your employer considers (???) but then refuses your request to come off the on call rota, then you may have no alternative than to resign. Without knowing more about the logistics of the practice, it is hard to comment on this. In a small practice, it is hard to have one person not doing on call. Especially if other members of staff, including Dads, with children ARE on it.

In summary, it is reasonable and right that employers make all reasonable efforts to look after their pregnant employees. I have been both a pregnant employee and employer of pregnant ladies, and it really isn't that bad. You get plenty of notice of leave...approx 6 months in most cases - and it is usually perfectly feasible to make the necessary changes. However, both parties need to be willing to sit down every few weeks and reassess, making changes as required. Without cooperation, this is very difficult.

One thing is certain though. Any employer who 'forces' a pregnant employee to work hours that they feel may harm them or their baby, is treading on thin ice!!

RE: Pregnancy experiences

Bob Russell — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:08:50 GMT

To get it out of the way, pregnancy can be a massive inconvenience to any employer, especially in a small practice. (Red star away but it is a fact).

That said the protection offered to pregnant mums is comprehensive.

The best way is for both parties to understand the other and be as flexible as possible. It is in the interest of the practice to ensure that all staff are kept fit and well.

It is very sad when it becomes a them and me situation but if you are unable to cope with the existing work pattern and the employer refuses to make changes (they are expected to make reasonable adjustments), maternity leave may be the only option.

I would suggest you keep any inflexibility in mind when you decide whether to go back or find employment elsewhere!

Worst case take legal advice but at this stage employer/employee relations have usually broken down.

Pregnancy is not an illness but it is only fair for everyone to show consideration!

Good luck and best wishes for a safe arrival of Master or Miss Anon!!