Ad hoc cover?

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:51:02 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]My wife was back on the tandem, pulling the burley trailer 2 weeks after the birth, imagine that gentleman[/quote]

I remember one of those , stopped at a pub for lunch in hartington ,and someone nicked it.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:06:47 GMT

My wife was back on the tandem, pulling the burley trailer 2 weeks after the birth, imagine that gentleman

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 08:58:12 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] Ian wasn't there for the birth of our son.....sole charge vets etc! He was actually doing a bitch spay, [/quote]I nearly wasn't there, although I can't claim working bragging rights as I was out on my bike so a friend had to take Maureen to hospital. In the end it was a caesarian so I didn't miss anything. Indeed I was discussing surgical techniques with the surgeon as he proceeded and even M joined in as she had helped me with caesars in the past. He must have thought we were a right pair.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 00:32:31 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Pure luxury !! I was out putting a bed back in a limousin cow 45 mins after the birth of my youngest son, -12, 6am, they don't know they are born today !!. [/quote]

You gave birth to a son?

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:51:01 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Pure luxury !! I was out putting a bed back in a limousin cow 45 mins after the birth of my youngest son, -12, 6am, they don't know they are born today !!. [/quote]

Your profile picture and pseudonym really make you seem male.... who'd have thought...!!!

(p.s. if we're going to have a pissing contest, Ian wasn't there for the birth of our son.....sole charge vets etc! He was actually doing a bitch spay, after being up all night with me in hospital and then having to leave at 7.30am to go to work. Baby didn't appear till 10am!)

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Cat Henstridge — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:21:57 GMT

To go back to the original question (and to give poor NG a break from all the bashing!), I think there may well be people willing to do what you want and help you out.

I have young kids and work part-time but would like to work a bit more if only I could fit it in around childcare! I think I would be more keen on some set hours and pay but I wouldn't mind shorter periods than 8.30-6pm, if that could work.

I am in Sheffield but there may be someone like me near to you, you will just have to go looking for them!

This forum is a great place, there are also a few groups on FaceBook, for vet parents and for locums, that it might be worth posting on.

Good luck and good for you, ignore the cantankerous senior chaps (!)

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:04:11 GMT

[quote user="nobbygonzo"] (although I was back seeing clients after 2 weeks). [/quote]

Pure luxury !! I was out putting a bed back in a limousin cow 45 mins after the birth of my youngest son, -12, 6am, they don't know they are born today !!.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Karen Eggleton — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:27:15 GMT

Hi Martin, I refer surgical and hospitalisation cases to a local practice who also cover my OOH. I am grateful for the arrangement and can see the view you take, but the other way to look at it is that the surgical practice has work sent their way FOC that may otherwise go to other local practices ( I would consider that I cover geographical areas outside their normal catchment). I don't cream off their clients. There is the inevitable movement of clients between practices but they provide an excellent service and people like them. New practices are opening all the time in this area ( 4 at the last count including corporate) Not found a lack of work to go round yet between us all. The arrangement is a business one. Admittedly optional for the practice owners, not the employees who may see the cases, as you say, at inconvenient times.

And a mobile practice is not a cash cow. Low overheads but factor in travel time and cost and you are looking at seeing 10-12 clients in a day (this is a semi-rural area), no surgical work, and I don't charge London prices ( neither do I undercut). There is a definite ceiling to turnover and I now earn far less than I did as an employee and I consider that I work far harder (with no holiday). The business is still recovering from the expense of working part time in the first 6 months after having my son, and paying for locums then (although I was back seeing clients after 2 weeks).

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:20:21 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] I do remember a section of the school gate mafia[/quote]As I did the school run (yes before morning surgery and after afternoon but before evening surgeries and yes nobby I'm sole charge worked 24/7 365 did my own OOH, and still had a life and train for running and cycling) I used to join them. Did that make me a Yummy Daddy or more likely a Baddy Daddy? Better ideas for a term on a postcard please!

My nurse has just got it: Desirable Daddy.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:03:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I think the term was Yummy Mummy Jolly: this is youngish, still attractive mothers who go off on coffee mornings/afternoon tea/binge drinking sessions together while the kids are at school![/quote]

Right , sorry, terrible mental pictures/sketches of beer trays with car keys in them etc Its been a while but I do remember a section of the school gate mafia that seemed to spend more time at their hairdressers, applying make-up and boutique shopping, in fact they looked so great you wondered if the actually slept.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:51:58 GMT

[quote user="nobbygonzo"]I chose to practice this way, I prefer to practice this way. For me, my clients, my patients. [/quote]Correct me if I'm wrong but presumably you cannot perform anything other than minor surgery so you have to rely on someone to do major procedures for you, maybe at an inconvenient time if its an emergency. You then cream off their clients who want the convenience of house calls for simple stuff with a high profit margin like vaccinations and don't have the outlay of expensive diagnostic equipment or the overheads of a purpose built surgery. You may be lucky enough to have vets around you who tolerate this but can't you see there are those who may resent it and may not be overly sympathetic to your plight.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]I have no idea what a jump mummy jolly is[/quote] I think the term was Yummy Mummy Jolly: this is youngish, still attractive mothers who go off on coffee mornings/afternoon tea/binge drinking sessions together while the kids are at school!

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] I know Americans just put a sign on the door and go away fro the weekend leaving clients to fend for themselves,[/quote]I effectively do that, indeed did last Saturday for BSAVA congress but my OOH provider is happy to accommodate and I leave a nurse to flog flea products/food etc and do nurse clinics. Maybe that is being a little hypocritical but I wouldn't do it without a good relationship with the OOH clinic.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:49:14 GMT

I have no idea what a jump mummy jolly is ,the mind boggles . Does it involve Fluoxetine and red wine by any chance ?.

I can only comment upon what happens with these operations in our area that is not trolling per se. I had a friend stay from Belgium recently, wanted to play with some equipment, had her own one man/woman band stayed for 4 days , answered calls from clients while here, some quite urgent. Simply told them to go to a nearby practice ,no formal arrangement though. Not sure we want to go down that route really. I know Americans just put a sign on the door and go away fro the weekend leaving clients to fend for themselves, its not really where we want to be going really is it ?.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:37:45 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]Can I ask how you managed it? [/quote]

At the time I employed a nursery nurse and an au pair :-), started evening surgeries after bedtime. Nothing magical.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Karen Eggleton — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:13:05 GMT

Oh Clive :( You really do have a negative view of house call/ mobile clinics. I would let you continue trolling but I just need to correct you on a few points.

When I set up to run my full time practice 8 years ago (no, I don't go off on Yummy Mummy jollies when the clock strikes 3 pm leaving my clients to fend by themselves) I looked to see what the Americans were doing. Seems they've been doing SA ambulatory practice pretty well for quite some time with a professional body dedicated to it.

My meds are dispensed with a proper Zebra printed label running in the ambulance; we have always used Jupiter/Vetspace as a PMS so invoicing is hard copy or electronic; emergency contact numbers are printed on our practice cards, letterheads, vaccine cards etc and given out on our voicemail ( but I do have a rather impressive divert machine which ensures we never miss a call and the phone never rings without being answered during working hours); don't think Mark at Hazlewoods would let me fiddle HMRC ( nor have I ever tried); oh, and I carry all medicines I require, even got a glowing report from VMD inspectorate, and I don't believe my mode of practice has turned me in to a lazy, substandard vet.

I chose to practice this way, I prefer to practice this way. For me, my clients, my patients. I did the traditional, years of 1 in 2 mixed practice OOH then sole charge 24/7 in my own practice. I don't believe you have to offer your own OOH. You only live once I decided. You are to be commended that you put your clients/ patients first on this but don't shoot everyone down who has a different view or approach.

There's room for us all I would say :)

Kindest regards

Karen at The House Vet, Devon

( oh, and I was a homeopath in a previous life...)

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Nicola Cole — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:00:50 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

I had 4 small children at home , spent along time as a single parent ,and managed to run my own single handed Mixed practice including OOH without sneaking about and doing half a job when I felt like it.

[/quote]

Can I ask how you managed it? I don't mean that at all sarcastically-I'm honestly interested as I have a young child and work part time (including some out of hours work). Just wondering if there's something I've not thought of.....!

RE: Ad hoc cover?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:33:25 GMT

locums: some good ,some bad ,a few terrible . Its always going to be a bit of a poisoned chalice taking over a single handed practices couch -cases for a week or two. Better to get to 4+ vets then you can manage without them.

I have seen clients from these :limited home vet operations :-

1. meds not dispensed properly with the proper labelling .

2. no emergency contact numbers .

3. No records or receipts or history or invoices ,which leads nicely onto

4. Lots of cash shoved in the back pocket with no VAT or tax being paid. Making it instantly more attractive to a particular type of client .

5. The limited service inevitably leads to excessive delays in proper investigation and diagnostic work up. If 7 days of ronoxan has not worked on a PUO why would 7 days of Marbocyl ?

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Bob Russell — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:12:46 GMT

I am very much with Martin on this one!

Until I started to use Neil, we had some disastrous locum experiences. One was so grouchy and demanding this bit of equipment or that and complaining to and at staff, that they were so relieved to see me back. They phoned to check I was coming back!

Another did almost no work at all for two weeks. I had a text halfway through the holiday to say there was not enough money in the account to pay wages. I had to transfer money from the 'tax' account. I did not enjoy the second week of my holiday one bit.

I am not sure that holidays are worth the effort with the calibre of some of the vets locuming. If you get a good one, treat them well and get them back!

RE: Ad hoc cover?

George Cooper — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:58:54 GMT

If you are to stick your fees up by x percent than you could use that income to cover the locum you need to allow you a justifiable holiday.

This is all about deciding what is the more important, i think. You have a young son who may end up growing up not having seen enough of his mum - is THAT a price worth paying?

(or, tongue welded into cheek - try internet dating... ... ... ...)

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Karen Eggleton — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:31:51 GMT

Hi Neil, Thanks for the ideas. Already considered number 3 and currently the most appealing as workable with another mobile practice - the horror, there's more than one of us , helping out.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:07:21 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Sure your income may drop as Mrs Smith obviously loves you, but a good locum won't ignore that FNA, dental? All that will happen is that you will be a little busier when you get back, so overall you won't lose. I often ask for a daily takings and how it compares and there isn't a lot of difference.[/quote]The key word here is GOOD. Sadly good locums are rather thin on the ground - unfortunately you turned down my offer in January.

Even more unfortunately the Slovenian locum the agency sent me was f*****g useless and left several dead animals and even more disgruntled clients in his wake not to mention desperate nurses. At least I got a big hug when I came back.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:40:15 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]This is a fact and my income halves when I go away but I still have to pay the locum.[/quote]

I've never quite squared the circle on this one.

Sure your income may drop as Mrs Smith obviously loves you, but a good locum won't ignore that FNA, dental? All that will happen is that you will be a little busier when you get back, so overall you won't lose. I often ask for a daily takings and how it compares and there isn't a lot of difference.

Neil

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:36:22 GMT

Trying to look at this to make it more attractive

1) Take a holiday during January/February/November when locums are more available and maybe someone will work for less

2) Reduce the hours required.

You could operate a skeleton service. Maybe 0900-1300 for a half day rate. It would also give a locum a chance to enjoy the area and may appeal?

3) Take a week of and get a locum for 3 days rather than 5. Having worked this, true emergencies will need to be seen by the practice that you have access to?

Neil (originally from Tavistock)

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:26:55 GMT

[quote user="nobbygonzo"] ...as a solo practitioner I have found that people resist seeing locums because they want to see you. [/quote]This is a fact and my income halves when I go away but I still have to pay the locum. So long as I break even then it is OK but as I get closer to retirement I feel more and more like just closing up for a couple of weeks and send urgent cases to the OOH provider and hang the consequence. Trouble is I've now just applied to become a TP again to help a trainee who is desperate to stay with us and we want to keep her so that has committed me to at least 2 years to help her.

However Nobby, you have so to speak made your bed and have to lie in it and chosen a way of working you have to accept that it has its downsides. I wouldn't go as far as Mr Grumpy albeit he has effectively said what I thought but tried to be a bit more diplomatic (which is not at all like me usually)! Plus Gillian's experiences when she set up were almost exactly like mine. So its a case of change or adapt I feel.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Iain Richards — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:23:11 GMT

WHow about offering the local practice the retainer fee. Tell your clinets you are on holiday and if there is an emergency they can go to X practice. Pay X practice £100 per case seen that they get on top of the fee for seeing the cat.

RE: Ad hoc cover?

Liz w — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:13:00 GMT

Might be worth seeing if there are any non- working vets in your area who might actually welcome a little bit of work. ( obviously you would need to check their rcvs registration group and vds cover). I'm sure there are lots out there who would work but dont want to commit to a permanent job or long days locumming where this sort of cover could be ideal. Just depends if there's any near you.